John Schneider

Question: Even it it cost no more than surface-running rail to build and operate, is a subway desirable for Cincinnati? Or, in other words, if you had your choice -- rail on the street or in a tunnel -- what would you prefer? Just asking.

Photos of streetcars from all over the world http://www.shugotram.jp/twrldmap/twrldmae.html

Photos of streetcars from all over the world http://www.shugotram.jp/twrldmap/twrldmae.html

There is still a topic titled "CVG Expansion?"

I was walking down Twelfth Street near Vine the other day with a planner who is very knowledgeable about the plans for the Cincinnati Streetcar and rail transit in general. Because of the way Twelfth Street is redeveloping -- close-grained, intimate, with mixed-uses -- he thinks that both directions of streetcar travel should be on Twelfth instead of splitting them up between Twelfth and Central Parkway. I thought it was an interesting perspective, and I'm just putting it out there.

^ That's my point. With shuttle buses you'll get something of a transportation benefit, but that's about it. No one is going to build a new apartment or office building with less parking because they are counting on a shuttle being there forever. Remember: no electric rail system that has opened since the end of WWII has ever gone out of business. How many bus shuttle routes have come and gone since then?

Winburn has an idea whose time has come! And gone. It's not like the idea hasn't been tried before. Anybody remember The Downtowner? Or, what about the Southbank Shuttle? Do you see a lot of development along its route in Cincinnati?

^ None yet. My feeling is, because regular users are most likely to be the residents and office workers who, in the aggregate, are the drivers of all the development adjacent to the line -- passes should be heavily disconted. I'm thinking $30 per month or $300 per year. Needs a serious economic pricing study.

^ You can definitely live car-free in Cincinnati -- I have for years -- but you pretty much have to live in one of a handful of neighborhoods. Downtown is by far the best for this, because you can go anywhere including a ridiculously cheap fare to the airport that's faster than driving and parking. Over-the-Rhine is almost as good, but you often need to transfer to go east and west. With all its amenties and pretty good transit, Clifton/Ludlow, Clifton Heights and Corryville are pretty good bets too. I think living carless on Hyde Park Square would be great if a grocery store were still there. Walnut Hills, Mt. Auburn and Mt. Adams ought to offer carless living, but there just aren't enough services clustered together.

^ I kinda doubt it. Even if the fare is $2.00, and you have to pay twice, that's about one-third to one-fifth the cost of game-day parking near GABP and PBS. My guess is, you'll want to buy a monthly or annual pass.

Two things: On riding the streetcar, you'll probably purchase a time-stamped ticket that's good for two hours of riding. You could get on and off multiple times during that period. And on the Cato Institute, its chairman, William Niskanen, is the former chief economist of the Ford Motor Company.

^ I wouldn't hold up FasTracks as a shining example of light rail right now. The plan to construct the regional rail system there is seriously over budget and will probably have to be scaled back substantially. See: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/25/fastracks-manager-to-step-down-for-new-job/

Simulation of a modern streetcar planned for Baltimore. Enjoy. http://www.charlesstreet.org/trolley/index.cfm?page=simulation

A couple of comments: First, no one from 3CDC has ever gone to Portland on one of the Alliance's trips, but 333 other people have. With respect to the posting immediately above, the expectations for the success of the Cincinnati Streetcar have been substantially discounted compared to what was achieved in Portland. In fact, if you adjust for the amount of development we expect to have here and how long it will take to achieve it compared to Portland, it will only be a fifth as much, even though the Portland and Cincinnati regions are almost identical in population and wealth. All that was written above is true -- Portland is a lot greener. But here's what Portland doesn't have: * The incredible wealth of historic residential buildings that Cincinnati has; * A central riverfront park that isn't anywhere near as nice as what Cincinnat's will be; * Two major sports teams downtown; * Cheaper real estate; * A larger population of college students; * An all-year public market; * Major national corporations. Portland does have: * A murder rate that's maybe one-third of Cincinnati's; * A property-crime rate that's equal to or higher than Cincinnati's; * No sales tax, but higher earnings taxes; * Poor public schools and no prospects for improving them. We take people to Portland simply because Portland has rail and looks more like Cincinnati than any other city that does have rail. Its streets are equally wide, and the downtown is confined to a valley. It has a river, but one that's not framed by green hills as Cincinnati's is. People take account of the similarities and differences and draw conclusions. And besides, the wine's good.

Just got back from Portland where, along with several of City of Cincinnati department heads, we undertook some more due-diligence of the Portland Streetcar. Here are a couple of things we confirmed: * First, despite what Randal O'Toole says, Portland doesn't subsidize condos along the streetcar line, other than occasional streetscape improvements that are not material. They do subsidize a few rental projects that offer affordable housing, green roofs and more storefront retail than most developers would want to build. This fact enables O'Toole to use the word "streetcar" and "subsidy" in the same sentence and technically not lie. * The yield from Tax Increment Financing used to finance public improvements along the streetcar line is way, way higher than projected. In fact, the number our guest at dinner last night provided was so incredibly high I asked him to repeat it to make sure everyone fully understood what he was saying. The City reps noted it. I'm not going to put it out there -- I'll leave that to the City Manager -- but when it does come out, it will defeat the notion that the Cincinnati Streetcar would be somehow taking away money from other projects. In Portland, it's just the opposite, it's producing cash they never thought they would have. Saw fewer new buildings under construction and a few holes being dug, but Portland has clearly cooled-off. At least two condos have been converted to rentals -- at prices in excess of $2.00 per square foot per month plus parking, about twice what landlords can get for the best apartment buildings here. It's a good story. I'll probably lead another tour in October.

^ I agree, but for many years a state legislator from Dayton has insisted that the CCC rail go through Dayton on its way to Columbus. When I've asked why it has to go through Dayton in the past -- hardly the fastest way to Columbus, the answer I get is "Politics." Not sure if that still holds.

^ One problem is, Norwood is one of the most hostile communities in the entire region with respect to rail. If they object to electric light rail there, I'm guessing they will even more strongly object to diesel rail.

Good point. I just don't know how you keep a passenger train on schedule through the Mill Creek Valley, and that's the fatal flaw of trying to locate it downtown. Norwood is a good idea.

^ The diesel-powered commuter rail along Cincinnati's riverfront won't be built. The numbers simply aren't there -- not even close. The Wasson Line connecting downtown, uptown, Xavier and Hyde Park and Oakley and on the Milford has a chance. The new highway bridge over the Little Miami is probably a goner. Federal money for bridges -- what little there is -- will be first be going to replace existing facilities that are structurally deficient, next to replace ones like the Brent Spence that have few structural problems but are obsolete and then, and only then, to major new projects. I suspect a new Eastern Corridor bridge would be far down on that list. I'm guessing that within ten years we'll see an electric streetcar along the Ohio River from The Banks to Lunken -- there linking to intercity rail to Columbus and Cleveland.

^ Not going to happen.

My contacts at City Hall are optimistic. In this town, when you're not hearing news on something, it's probably a good thing. It means people don't want to blow the deal and so they are keeping their mouths shut.

I dunno. Sitting up there in his $200 shirt and his $2,000 suit, with his smug and arrogant vision of the no-problems world of the Fifties, Weiler may have helped the streetcar more than he hurt it. People understand and retain what they see more than what they hear, and, to me, he came off as a know-it-all firmly rooted in the past. Scott Bernstein, by comparison, was terrific -- informed, personable, engaging ... someone with a command of what's happening in forward-looking cities around the country. And what's Jim Coleman's problem? From an outsider's perspective, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

^ I dunno.

^ Yes. Next trip is August 15th.

^ This time, it needs to be demand-driven. MetroMoves focused on the supply-side -- something for everyone.