freethink

Having driven by the SYC site for years on my way to work downtown, I for one am excited about this project. I know allot of people on this forum have a fascination with all things that are rusted out and belching smoke and old, but I'm not one of them. I too can see beauty in industry, but not when its dilapidated and in a state of disrepair. Not when it chokes the life out of a downtown that begs for any new construction it can get. Cleveland has a habit of continuing the same mistakes its made for the last 150 years. My goal for the flats industrial valley over the next 20 years would be to return it to the state that it was for the 10k years prior to the last 150 years when it was scarred and polluted by a handful of people who didn't live anywhere near it. It will be great to drive by SYC in the future and not have to close my windows and look the other way. Not that any shopping center is a work of art, but considering what was there-it will be a masterpiece.

^because it's all bs. It's the way of the world. The old political appointment. Machaskee is rewarded by the Governor for his mediocre career as publisher of the peedee. And this way he can continue to maintain his ridiculous lifestyle while still collecting a little "walking around money" courtesy of you and me. It's a beautiful thing.

here it is... CMHA given go-ahead for city housing project Sunday, July 02, 2006 Angela D. Chatman Plain Dealer Reporter no link...

^ What is this "negative" you speak of ? Signed, Everyone in Cleveland

From newsnet5 - Deals Made To Take Over Two Bars In Flats POSTED: 8:40 am EDT June 30, 2006 UPDATED: 9:10 am EDT June 30, 2006 CLEVELAND -- The Port Authority has reached an agreement with the owner of The Beach Club and Boom Cabaret on the East Bank of the Flats. The terms of the deal aren't being released. Recently, developer Scott Wolstein proposed to completely overhaul the east bank. Legal proceedings with six remaining landowners are still going on in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court.

Holy Who's fault, the default. Very nice work.

from today's PD... Don't count on the grand idea of a retractable roof on Cleveland Browns Stadium becoming a reality. Maureen Harper, communications director for Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson, said the mayor has no intention of forming an exploratory committee to examine the feasibility, an idea championed by Councilman Mike Polensek. Council President Martin J. Sweeney said he, too, had no plans to form an exploratory committee for council. ...IDIOTS

The best thing about the proposal to revitalize PS is that the discussion is actually taking place. That's the first step. I think with all of the projects on board in this town people are getting excited again about where they live-and better yet they are willing to put the ideas out there for discussion. As for the above proposal by Paul Volpe-I think it is an O.K. start, but not a big enough change in my mind. Here is what I would like to see... -Remove the center streets, period. And tear out the concrete. -Remove all bus stops and bus traffic and relocate them. Only the BRT will have access to the square itself. -The streets that go around PS should become one-way. There is just something about traffic moving in one direction around a square or circle that brings order and discipline to an area. -Take the ice skating rink out of the plans. I don't understand the fascination with an skating rink. It takes up too much room for the few people that would use it. I would prefer to see some type of Winter Garden where people can go to when it's the usual 15 degrees outside. -Possibly move the S&S monument to the center of the square and build around that. -Turn the thing over to the Metroparks and let them design and manage it. They would also police it with Metropark Rangers. Other than that, wheres my shovel!

^ I was wondering that myself. ODOT posted a few things on their site from the mtg. http://www.innerbelt.org/Central%20Viaduct%20Bridge/CentralViaductHome.htm

And I'll be there with the dynamite. PS is a large space-but half of it is streets. I would like to see the streets running thru PS closed. And the streets that run around PS should become one-way . This would create a true square that can then be put to better use. I would hold a design competition and let the creative minds just go nuts and give us something truly unique. Right now PS is just one big giant bus stop-not a very inviting place.

MayDay-thanks for posting this photo. It makes me think of what might have been. I know architecture is very subjective-but I love this building and the impact it would have had on the skyline. I think it worked very well at the base and gave public square another building with a unique crown. Also the glass portion would have brightened up public square as it desperately needs. I can only hope that Jacobs will do something special with that property one day. Imagine how the skyline would look if this building and the Progressive building (which I think is a brilliant design) had been built. Very nice.

Is ODOT and MBC looking for a bridge designer on monster? What, couldn't they find someone to design the most important bridge of our lifetime on craigslist. http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=37695634&AVSDM=2006%2D06%2D02+11%3A07%3A23&Logo=1&lid=560&cy=us

Guys like this make me optimistic about this city. I mean here's a guy working it hard for his city. He doesn't need this, I am sure he's got money he hasn't even folded yet. But here he is working some trade show in Vegas talking about his city. Believe me he's doing more in one week promoting Cleveland than the Growth Assoc. will do in a year. I am hoping people like Stark/Corna/Wolstien are successful in their projects-we need more like them. Also, I wonder if BStark would let me have that photo of Cleveland behind him-it would look sweet in my living room. Just a thought.

Kind of funny the county playing by the rules-I mean when was the last time they were on time with anything. You just know some bike messenger making 6 bucks an hour is losing his job over this. I'll bet Dimora was just nervous he was going to miss his noon feeding.

One of the things I like about Corna is his knowledege and use of building materials that are not mainstream. Stonebridge will use a lighter-steel constuction which is vey cool. The proposed stadium roof would be made of a material call Foiltec. The more I think about this project, I agree it should be done. This could be a good time for Cleveland over the next 5-10 years. Hopefully the new mayor has the same vision for this city that we all share. Check out this link on Foiltec it is very cool stuff. http://www.vector-foiltec.com/vector.htm

Mixed use is great, it's what we all hope for with every development. But Cleveland needs to forget who we are. And what we are is a steel town, complete with a dirty river, and smoke stacks and all the beauty that goes with that. Who wants to live within that. You would have to be a real hardcore urbanite to wake up to that every day. Cleveland needs to get out of it's comfort zone. There is a great quote that say's " If you continue to do the things you have always done-you will continue to get the things you have always got". Imagine if you will...some 175 years ago, a vibrant river surrounded by a beautiful green valley. That valley is now the industrial flats. The perception of this city is one of industry. I mean what's the first thing a visitor sees when they fly into town-the first thing that greets them is a rusted out, smoke belching Ford plant. And as they roll down 71 they are greeted once again with more smoke stacks and brown fields. We can't escape it. In my vision I see a city one day that will reinvent itself, and do things that we havent done. To my thinking it can be a beautiful valley once again. Does SYC do that? No but it's a start, it's something other than another smoke stack. I don't think SYC will draw as much from the neighborhoods as it will draw more from those who live and work downtown everyday. And maybe one day the property right behind it will change from industry to a more livable envirement, and then the property behind that...and so on

Unfortunately the days of the little neighborhood store is long gone. The mom&pop stores simply cannot compete as far as price point is concerned. They may be better located and have better personal service, but lets be honest-to 99.9% of us price is the guiding factor in our buying decisions. Retail has changed, their are just too many options these days. SYC is a good start. Other major cities are able to support big box retail close to their downtown areas-I think it will be a big success.

And something else to consider from a design standpoint. To me any thing that can be done to somehow diffuse the look of 70 thousand bright orange seats should be done. I mean does this city have a review panel or were they off the day they decided to approve those seats. And not only did they approve the orange seats-they wrapped the stadium in green tinted glass. Orange and green-only in Cleveland.

This is an easy decision. Just ask yourself-does this project make us more competitive as a region when trying to lure events to Cleveland? Your only answer can be Yes. Over the years I have seen so many different projects talked about and re-talked about, until they were talked to death. So many negative attitudes always speaking the loudest. If you believe in this project do your best to spread the positive words about it and don't let those who live in their doom and gloom world continue to be the stronger voice. And GO CAVS!

Which explains everything.

It amazes me that even in a forum of those who are pro-development, all you have to do is talk about building a sports venue and everybody gets all emotional-talking about money for schools and education and how sports is a waste of money. I heard all of that when gateway was proposed. Money is not going to help the schools, what will help the schools is to find administrators who care more about the kids than holding onto their phony job titles. The last superintendant we had that cared about the kids blew his brains out because he couldnt take the politics involved-but thats for another thread. I am all for The Avenue District/The East Bank/And Starks Project. But do I really need 3 more Baby Gaps, 8 more Starbucks and so on. Why do people live in downtown areas? Because they like bad air and traffic? No, they live downtown to be a part of something bigger than life to be near things that they can't find in the suburbs. As a job I go to different cities to work various events. The things we want to see when we get there are not condos and retail, we want to visit the big projects-things you can't see at home. The reality is we are a cold northern city that needs work (in more ways than one)-we can't afford to turn things down that help us compete. Corna is proposing something with no cost to the tax payer, how can we turn away from that.

Thanx for reposting this-It deserves further discussion. I continue to think this is a no-brainer. There are times in a city's life that they must make the hard decisions. This is not a panacea, it will not solve all of our problems-it is a piece of the puzzle. A city would be negligent if they didnt do everything possible to improve its situation. How can it not decide to make this a year round facility. I would be a little more skeptical if someone like Bob Corna wasnt behind the idea. This guy has done some great projects with very little support, and he seems to have that vision that is so needed in a city filled with negative thinkers. For the small cost of extending the "sintax" which I can't believe has put hardships on anyone, I think it's a win-win project. I know the negative people are getting ready to shoot this down, they will call it stupid and continue to call it a "dome" when its a retractable roof. This is a long shot project-it needs all of the support it can get.

I think we may be stuck with it. As much as I detest the building, we are talking about the county-they will play the "save money" card. Maybe one of the design firms can improve the appearance of it somehow, and renovate the rotunda and brighten up that corner. Remember the county has a history of bad building decisions-or do I have to point out the ugliest building on the planet, the Justice Center.

From today's peedee Breuer office tower worthy of saving, say architects By Steven Litt Plain Dealer Architecture Critic Cuyahoga County could save tens of millions of dollars by renovating a 35-year-old downtown office tower designed by Marcel Breuer instead of tearing it down and replacing it. So says Cleveland architect Douglas Hoffman, a member of a firm seeking the assignment of designing the new administrative center for the county. More at http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/entertainment/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_entertainment/archives/2006_05.html#139262

Oh man, a positive article about c-town. Who would have thought. This is why the Euclid Cooridor project is so important. Those who goof on it do not see the whole picture. To me it's a slam dunk-it cost us very little and will change the face of euclid ave-can't wait