Htsguy

^I will have to run that one by my buddy in Denver the next time he brags for the 100th time about his view of the Rocky Mountains from his third floor deck. ;)

^Not that is adding to the thread conversation (but that has never stopped me before) but what is your definition of Cleveland? Saks Off Fifth is at Aurora Farms and Orvis is at Eaton and for years before was in Chagrin Falls.

^Isn't Stark looking for other types of government subsides from the county to go along with the TIF? Didn't the school board step back from the TIF because it heard Stark was trying to negotiate a package with the county and it thought that all sides should be at the table to see exactly what subsidies were being offered and how they would work together?

^Doubt it. Brick and mortar retail was more viable then than now. And the downtown work force was also bigger then. Given the current retail environment nationwide I doubt that TC would even be built today (especially with all the original high end stores) even with the increased downtown residential downtown population.

^In the United States, the general rule (in fact it is referred to as the American rule) is that each party bears his own legal fees in most circumstances. There are exceptions and they are usually statutory. For example in a statutory federal civil rights action known as a Section 1983 action, the winning party may be (and most of the time is) awarded attorney fees. Another example would be a finding that the action brought is frivolous (again statutory or pursuant Rule 11 of the Civil Rules of Procedure). The Little Italy Visconsi matter is an appeal of a finding of the Board of Zoning Appeals. I am pretty sure each party bears it's own costs. Moreover it is not a damages case. Watson is simply looking to over turn a finding of the Zoning Board which allowed the Visconsi project to proceed.

Update on the zoning litigation involving Visconsi's proposed apartment project on the Woodhill Supply site. On Jan. 9 2018 the common pleas court again ruled in favor of the Zoning Board. Recall this is the second go around at the common pleas level. The CP court ruled in the Board's favor and against Coltman Townhouse resident David Watson more than a year ago and he appealed. Unfortunately the Court of Appeals ruled in favor of Watson in a 2-1 decision (not on the merits but due to a procedural error by the CP court which I will not get into) and sent it back to the CP last May. Watson now has 30 days to appeal again which I am sure he will do, so it will probably be another 6-8 months before this is resolved. The briefing should go quickly as the issues have been briefed countless times between the CP court and the 1st go around in the Court of Appeals. I still believe the Board has a good case and will win on the merits at the appellate level. However, as I expressed before, I wonder if Visconsi is getting tired of this whole thing (may be part of Watson's strategy), or changed circumstances since the announcement might just kill this very large project.

^Crocker Park is not a mall.

^KJP, check page 20 of the thread...it appears the design has changed. Are these finally ready to go? By the way, what ever happen to the modern condo proposal for the Primo Vino site right by this project?

It would be easier for me to believe these alleged stories if somebody would actually identify the developer and give some background. There are blocks of decrepit building on Detroit from 25th to Gordon Square and I don't see a land rush of offers for these buildings by these "developers".

^Maybe just a larger percentage of people with good taste than other cities. ;)

I don't believe the first evidence of a renewed TIF vote is simply going to appear out of nowhere in a school board agenda or board minutes without a fair amount of press coverage prior to any vote and perhaps more public meetings. If you all recall, the TIF vote was pulled at the last minute after extensive review and public input when the board got wind of other negotiations Stark was conducting with other public entities about an "overall full funding plan" for the project and the board, quite wisely, wanted to be involved in the discussions. Since late August I would imagine the major players have been meeting to formulate a plan that will incorporate different types of public subsidies from the city, county and school board and run these proposals past potential debt funding sources. Such a process is going to be a slow go. My best guess is that the first smoke signals of a detailed proposal relating to public subsidies will come from the city or county rather than the school board and that we will hear about it from Michelle well before any formal public discussions and/or votes occur.

Very informative article. This whole project reads like a mini Playhouse Square theaters story-historic, saved just in the knick of time and what appears to be a careful renovation by a dedicated group of Clevelanders who care for the city. I recall I attended my first office Christmas party at the CAC as a law clerk in the early 80s. I felt like a real grown up.

Yikes. I hope design review is all over this one.

^Humor is obviously subject. I think SNL is currently funnier than ever and the production values have clearly improved over the years. I remember it well when it first came out in the 70's (with all the iconic comics that people praise) and thought it was incredible then. Now I look at some of the bits and think what was I laughing at (and the acting was horrible...its like they didn't even rehearse).

^Yeah, Tony George, a Cleveland visionary :( I am not familiar with the legal requirements here in connection with the sale. I wonder if it statutory that the County has to accept the highest bid or whether officials have some sort of discretion (something like they can consider the "best use"). If they do have such discretion the other bidder is shooting himself in the foot with his vague (and previously unreported) plans for the site. A master plan or conceptual rendering would at least help a little in this battle.

By the way, there are also a number of forum members who have disappeared over the years who I don't miss in any way, shape or form. I am a pretty classy guy so those members will remain nameless. :-D

MTS would be off the radar for a long time and then suddenly show up for 2-3 weeks, cause his usual fun mischief (I always guessed he was on vacation or business was slow) and then disappear again for a good long while and then pop up again for a couple of weeks. However, it seems like it has been longer than ever this time. Hope he is not gone for good. I have of course noticed that HTS121 has no posted for a while (obviously this is more noticeable since he use to post so often) and I miss him as I usually agreed with him 99% of the time and he is quite articulate and had many insightful posts. For some reason I do recall that we do disagree on the topic of corporal punishment-why this sticks in my head I know not why. I too miss NorthAndre and his great photo threads. I believe he was an architect so he also had many good insights.

^that is already built. It is the rear of the current apartment building.

^100% agree with you that a major streetscape (rebuilding) of Detroit should be planned from West 25th to Gordon Square (similar to the streetscape improvements to the Gordon Sq area a few years back). I imagine if Detroit continues on the path it is currently taking that is in the cards, but of course there is the problem of $$$ in a city awash with needs. As you should be aware, northern West 25th should receive a makeover if the Irish Bend project is implemented. Part of that planning process is a narrowing of 25th around Detroit among other street improvements. I have great hope for that process.

^Buildings no taller than 3 or 4 stories max would be a huge disappointment, and a mistake in my mind. The old "cost" versus "return" bugaboo raises its ugly head again.

Sometimes I wonder if some posters have actually ever been downtown.

^Results should be announced soon. Good luck.

^^So here is an interesting Ohio Bar Exam Question. Can Stark be sued and held liable for all the motor vehicle accidents which are going to occur on the highways due to the fact that Urban Ohio members are not paying attention to the roadway but looking for cranes. Interesting proximate cause discussion.

^Actually I am a technology curmudgeon (I wish for Amazon's demise regularly) and for some strange reason I kinda like this.

^If Sherwin Williams actually moves to the lakefront this would be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the Jacob Group is run by some of the most incompetent people in town.