Htsguy

^I am curious how any negotiations between Stark and Weston are going (I would imagine there have had to have been some contact since Weston owns the rest of the block and Stark owns just a small portions of the block and is looking to move) for the Stark headquarters on West 3rd. and if there any mindless hang ups. The Stark property has been for sale for quite some time and really, who would want to buy it other than Weston.

I am curious...when you have a forum like this (2 dozen cranky ill informed biased old white guys if all of Michelles tweets are to believed), do district officials in the know who have been negotiating this deal forever even bother listening or are concerned about what is said. Does the forum eventually just turn into a going through the motions type exercise so that in the end there is a record of "public input" which they can point to or do they really take such nonsense to heart for fear of back lash from an uneducated electorate (no matter how small).

^^"Maybe" yes. Both 515 and Playhouse Square are unique and probably should not be used as examples that the tide is turning. Playhouse Square is apparently getting done because of the Foundation which is doing it on its own and is less concerned with "profit". According to reports the Foundation tried to convince a number of private developers to take on the project and none of them could make the numbers work for them. 515 is unique in that it has a pre-existing foundation which has clearly helped with costs (along with government subsidies).

Don't want to sound like a broken record but I am no fan of Peter Rubin either.

^I cannot recall hearing or reading any threats to move by the Cavs ownership in connection with the renovations...from day one their pitch has been that the renovations are needed so that the arena can stay competitive with its peers, and to attract other events which might skip over Cleveland. The Cavs are splitting the 140 mil cost 50/50 with the city so they are invested to some extent.

^I have to disagree with your characterization of "most cities". Off the top of my head recent public assisted projects: Milwaukee Bucks arena, Atlanta Braves stadium, Texas Rangers stadium. It is just crazy what Nevada is offering the Raiders so a 1.5 billion stadium can be built. And by the way, St. Louis did not thumb their noses at the Rams. They offered more than 400 mil. in public subsidies, it just was not enough. This is not right but it happens regularly and the trend continues.

^Yet cities across the country keep giving their sports billionaires public money despite the fact that their city services and schools are just as bad or worse. Until that stops we have to play the game or we are left behind (and still with bad schools). Any realistic ideas to stop this nationwide?

Briefing in connection with the mandamus action in the Supreme Court is complete. I imagine there could be a ruling as early as next week. If they find in favor of the city clerk I imagine work could start before September. Really don't know what happens if the realtors win and the petitions have to be accepted for a possible vote in November, although I imagine work will not start if this happens unless somebody really gets creative.

^KJP, see the posts just before yours. Apparently the new construction is not the hotel but just phase 2 of the apartments.

As usual, Michelle has done an incredibly job of reporting. Jammed packed with facts and analysis. I would, however, question her assertion in the opening paragraph where she identifies the Stark development as the first true skyscraper in downtown Cleveland in three decades. I would consider the Hilton and federal courthouse skyscrapers. Hopefully this passes mustard but who knows. It is complex and will have to be explained carefully to get pass those who generally just "knee jerk" reject such deals. it appears from the article that the Stark organization has been working hard at negotiations to craft a creative deal for a while. They should be applauded given the clear financing difficulties which arise due to Cleveland rents and property values. KJP, looks as though you were wrong for once (alert the press :wink:) and the TIF will actually get considered before the mayoral election.

^BOJ is referring to the CIA Building on Euclid. They were the architects for the original design of the addition (that was completed a couple of years ago). That design was eventually rejected primarily due to cost and a new architect brought in. He is not referencing the old and vacant CIA Building on East Blvd. across from the art museum.

I would get rid of the plaza. Not need with the square right around the corner. Just a hang out space looking for trouble. Fill it with convenience retail.

I don't believe I have read anything on the project where the owner or architect actually explains the "reasoning" for the residential entrance on Euclid (could somebody direct me if there is something out there as I would like to understand their thinking). As noted the theater parking garage entrance is on East 17. I think the suggestion that the Euclid entrance is more convenient is just board speculation and chatter. I don't know how you can suggest it is actually more convenient since it is a right turn only both in and out.

^thanks

^Can you tell from the site work whether this Phase 2 work includes the hotel or just the Phase 2 apartments? The hotel will be on the corner. By the way, this discuss probably belongs in the Upper Chester thread for continuity.

^same exact thing with me on pc. Can access forum but home page wants me to download a file.

Funny...when I first started this thread in October 2014 I did not even include Beacon in my suggested list and stated that the Playhouse Square apartment building was only "rumored", and it looks like both will break ground well before my first choice, Brickman's Duck Island project, which still has a long way to go (they are now suggesting early 2018). Other projects that were not even announced at the time (like the Snavely Ohio City project) are well on their way in contrast to other announced projects on my list which have not even started and don't appear to have a chance go start any time soon. Really thought the lakefront would have started by now (nothing done other than the Mexican restaurant).

^Ask the owners of the John Hartness Brown Buildings.

No, that parking garage is to be demoed. It is a mess.

Agree. I've met him a few times and my impression is that he just looks for ways to get some free money but doesn't want to do any actual development. Agree. Just a player and has no real interest in development. Buys property for parking and leverage. Even worse is that he is an obstructionist who adversely impacts others who are actually trying to get stuff done. Remember all the shit he pulled in connection with Wolstein's Flat's project? I would be very surprised if this actually get built. By the way, that infill building next to the Liberty Building was constructed with the idea that the elevator (which services building to the left in the picture but not shown) in the new construction could service the Liberty Building, but nothing has happen in over 20 years since it was first built. That infill building shown is just OK. Not a quality job in terms of materials.

I was in downtown Kent for the first time in probably more than 20 years a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised (in fact maybe shocked is a better word) by the recent transformation. Very pleased to see the developments. As far as the campus goes...blessed their hearts you can see that they are "trying" but...

Your marquee tenant extending their existing lease for 2 years is not a non story. It's an acknowledgment Benesch doesn't think nucleus will break ground any time soon. But it also implies that Benesch still believes the project is going to happen (or am I reading too much into them simply not walking away at this point?)

Any spies at design review yesterday? Interested in the comments of the "experts"

^Somebody told you there was lots of free parking spaces downtown and you believe him? The only free parking I can think of is on streets on the fringes of downtown (I do that often for Browns games) which then require quite a hike. I cannot think of any MAJOR American city where downtown free parking is the norm.

^Just re-read Michelle's PD article regarding the project and it stated that if all approvals went smoothly the developers were hoping to break ground in December 2017. Which means you automatically add 8-12 months if they do have financing.