Htsguy

Drove by today....more and more I am not liking the parking on Euclid in front of the apartment buildings. For some strange reason it seems to take away from the buildings and streetscapre more than street parking in other areas. Maybe it is because the sidewalks are so narrow. Really can't figure it out but something just seems wrong.

Who exactly is in the market to buy it and develop it (at any price)?

I am curious what the board thinks regarding which of the next phase buildings SHOULD be built and which WILL be built. I would imagine most people want the building at the corner of Ford and Euclid next since we all hate that parking lot, it is such a prime location and the conceptual design is kinda unique (not to mention taller). However, I really think the last building slashing by the MOCA will do much to frame the museum and I would really like to see those buildings on E.115th torn down and uptown expanded east. My best guess as to what WILL be built is the MOCA building since it does not involve demolition and is the smallest of the three buildings (cost and financing always being a factor). Maron seems to be more of a practical developer and moves more in baby steps.

This place has been problematic since day one. Verticle shopping (a concept which I like if done right...say Water Tower Place in Chicago) at its worst. The garage was poorly constructed and is dark and univiting even if built well. Does not address the street at all and hard to get from floor to floor and store to store. Tops already closed years ago and now this. Seems like 40% of the place has remained empty from the beginning. Target is the only bright spot. Perfect example of an inner ring suburb (University Hts.) "settling" just to get something built.

Yes

The Rite Aid on Chester and 105th would be a little closer.

^Actually, while there might not have be a "save the Detroit" campaign, if I recall correctly there was significant opposition to this at City Hall hearings and the like. I would also imagine that even if the Detroit was patronized more heavily the result would not have changed. McDonald developer's tend to over pay for prime locations and the $$$ was probably too good. Hopefully the city will force a design (do we have high hopes) that will not be a blight on the landscape like the recent McDonalds monstrosity built in University Hts after the destruction of "sidewalk buildings". Now the drive through and parking front Warrensville Center. What a mess.

Does that mean there are no dining options if you are gaming at say 3:00 am? Is this common in a 24 hour casino? I would imagine there might not be many customers but I thought they would want to offer food choices to the night owl gamblers. Excuse my ignorance but I have never been in a casino any where in my life.

I definitely agree now that they are done. They would have had more of an impact if they were at least one and preferably two stories higher. I am hoping that the building on the corner of Ford and Euclid (which concept photos show as 6-7 stories) might mitigate this problem.

Just curious...Can anybody off the street (say lunch time office workers) patronize the buffet or do you have to be a casino customer?

That "thing" was awful when it came out two years ago and is getting only more awful with age. Hopefully there will be a new and better design. Indeed it is even awful for Solon, and that is saying a lot given the state of architecture in that fair city.

^What he said. Is this thread necessary as we have plenty of PS discussions in other threads. I see much re-hashing coming up.

The Independence Melt is definitely a popular lunch spot. I have the great pleasure of working off of Rockside Road, and it's usually pretty tough to get a table. They actually do a pretty good job of getting you in an out in 45min-hour. I still think it's kind of gross and a ripoff though. They only get my business because the other options out here are Zoup!!! and Chipotle. I would suggest Dibella's which is practically right next door to Melt on Rockside. Best subs in town in my opinion.

^I am not 100 percent sure but I think Dunham purchased the property recently (with the intent to tear it down). I do know that the deal with the mentioned developer fell through and I believed this allowed Dunham to step in. I would imagine somebody can confirm or correct this.

That dead ray building also has a curve in it as well and is glass so its not a complete "cereal box" but the Ernst and Young tower is alright but not great it may look better when completed. I was just saying Cleveland has to many "cereal box" shaped buildings is all. Not to kick a dead horse but to kick a dead horse. Key Center Terminal Tower One Cleveland Center SBC Building ATT Building Fifth Third BP Building US Bank Building Eaton Center North Point Federal Courthouse None of these are, to use your term "cereal boxes". More troubling in my mind is that some of these buildings are not great architecture while some of the "cereal boxes" are somewhat good examples of international style (which are prevalent ALL OVER THE NATION given the building booms of the sixties and seventies)

I really like the design and it is 100% better than the other major Wolstein building downtown (currently named US Bank Building on Playhouse Square) which really leaves much to be desired.

^I know it is subjective and a matter of personal taste, but what exactly is so unique or architectually stunning about Willis Tower. For that matter Freedom Tower in NYC (actually didn't they drop that name and it is back to World Trade Center) is OK but not when compared to many other buildings in NYC. Indeed San Fran. one of the greatest cities in the world, with a great built up skyline, has some of the most boring buildings in the US.

^Doesn't MTS own a place in NYC (or did)?

It appears that a number of the recent moves downtown from the suburbs by certain firms (not huge companies but certainly not small potatoes and many with potential for growth of course) is the result of a "perfect storm". Staffs with a different mindset (and usually younger) who prefer downtown over the 'burbs (as is happening nationwide), lots of available space in not so awful buildings (like Diamond...not new or stunning but adequate) with great lease rates, and the fact that lots of the suburb stock is starting to get old and moldy (60's and 70's stuff that was not great in the first place and now that is no longer new is starting to lose its appeal). It is getting to the point that the only real advantage to the 'burbs is the free parking. Take away any one of these factors and the moves might not be happening (especially the great lease deals). Another point is that suburban sprawl might actually be helping downtown. Employees are now located all over Northeast Ohio. Despite freeway expansion in the burbs, the highways and mass transportation in Cleveland is still geared towards downtown and it easier for a firm's "total" workforce to get downtown than a particular place in the suburbs. Too bad our major Fortune 500 companies (Eaton, Progressive, Parker) don't get it. They are still run by my father's generation or with younger executives who unfortunately have my father's mentality.

^years ago I noticed graffiti at the Green Rd. station. I sent an e mail to the current mayor (I think she might have also been on the RTA board at the time). It was quickly taken care of.

^It's in "Transportation" then "Mass Transportation".

Might make more sense to post this question in the RTA thread. More people with knowledge might see it.

What's "weird" about it? I know a few people that don't visit urban ohio might think it "wierd" that we can go on and on discussing a sign. I guess that's what I find interesting about this board.

^what he said. many good points.

^Quite frankly I am, and have never been all that giddy about the casino and what it is going to do for Cleveland (downtown or the city as a whole although it will be nice to have an extra 20 mil or so in tax revenue) What the hell have casino's done for Detroit?