Htsguy

^Cannot comment on the trees but my view of the stations is that the cantaliever is simply a design element and is not meant to function as protection from wind and rain. That is the purpose of the shelter which is covered and completely glass enclosed. Looks like they can hold 15-18 comfortably (as least standing) which should be enough given the location of most stations and the frequency of the buses. My question is whether the stations are larger in the Public Square to CSU corridor since is could be expected that more people will board in that area. Also, I was just driving the area today and noticed the many of the trees are surrounded by a small tree lawn. I wonder who is going to be responsible for cutting the grass?

^Somewhat confused. Are you saying design work on the transit center has already begun. From what I know of construction projects (especially public construction projects which require public bidding) this would have to be the case if shovels are to be in the ground in July of '08.

Redbeard, whether people agree with you or not, I for one appreciate the time you take to offer us your thoughts and keep the discussion going (as well as your ability to offer your opinions and disagree with others without needlessly attacking them).

Well it looks like Maron decided that 4th is simply a going to be an entertainment district with no real retail. Maybe he could not sign up anybody worthwhile or maybe the hope is for retail on Euclid and Prospect.

I guess my bigger concern with bw3 closing is its specific location on River Road in as compared to the rest of the east bank. Where the Wolstein development is going in, it really is dead and with the current demolition very uninviting in its current state. In contrast, bw3 was a long standing business in a location that is practically minutes, if not seconds from at lease 900 residences (Bridgeview, Crittendon Court and (just had a brain fart...cannot remember the name of the building where Constantinos is located)) and hundreds more just a few minutes away. Also it is directly down the St. Clair hill from the businesses in the Warehouse District and close to a rapid stop. There is still lots of activity in the area but recently we have seen the closing of Arhaus, Gilly's and now BW3. It is has been a couple of years but I use to go there often for lunch and it seemed to have a decent crowd given all the other dining options people had. That is why I asked if there was something more behind its closing than traffic (maybe a bad lease renewal or ownership issues). Anyone?

A blurb in the PD's restaurant row column stated that BW3 on the East Bank of the Flats closed after 15 years. Wonder what was behind the closing. I know the East Bank is dead but the location was a close to many apartments and a short walk from many businesses.

^"On a Sunday afternoon...it's not likely that you'll see heavy pedestrian traffic on certain downtown streets like East 9th (except for the lakefront...)" This only makes sense. It is the heart of the financial district which at that time is loaded silly with closed banks, law firms and investment firms. I would imagine that if you took pictures on LaSalle Street in Chicago on the same day you would have also noticed a lack of pedestrians, while streets like Michigan Avenue and areas towards the lake would have been booming.

Sorry KJP but you are preaching to the choir. I am a pure capitalist and very pro developer. Jacob has the right to build what ever poorly conceived center he would like as long as it follows zoning and architectural guidelines. That said I am very disappointed in what is going up at that location. It is a prime site and would have been a great location for a mixed used development (much better than Crocker Park as to a certain extent it is already a walkable neighborhood (with a lack of walkers)). What is going up is something you would find in Streetboro. The same old national chains and tons of surface parking and catering to the automobile. I know from personal experience that they are not really interested in courting local merchants (which makes even your routine strip center more interesting). By the way, lets not forget the above when we start slamming Wolstein for what is going up on his property in the Flats.

Wow...a well written and balanced article by Steve Litt. Go figure.

At that location (dense for a suburb and on many bus routes) and with so much land the whole development could have been so much more and so much better. No reason for awards.

^A few years back I lived in the Warehouse District and worked on Playhouse Square. I thought I would walk to work everyday (at least in the spring, summer and fall) when I first moved in. Within a week of moving in I was driving every day. Even on nice days (even 70 degrees with a nice breeze), wearing a suit and tie and carrying a brief case, by the time I reached the office I was drenched with sweat (maybe it is just me...I am certainly not overweight and in good shape). Since my employer paid for parking and the garage was attached to my building I guess I just took the easy way out. I am a little embarrassed by this but really not "ashamed". :wink:

^^I have been in both the Rotunda and Tower on numerous occasions. Rotunda was nicely renovated by Cleveland Trust and was one of the most beautiful banking rooms in Cleveland. Very light filled and airy. What I remember most about the tower is that it had some of the slowest elevators in downtown Cleveland.

This is just a guess but I think willboy might have been thinking about set backs as in "not right on the sidewalk" which of course make everybody on the board crazy while map boy's reference to set backs is at the higher elevations of a building. Again I could be wrong but just trying to prevent a war.

Pope. I know the Ballston station very well. In 84 it was the end of the Orange Line. I was there almost every day catching a bus to Tyson's Corner and then on to Reston where I was living at the time. At that time Ballston was not much more than a lot of car lots. It's transformation the past 20 years is amazing.

Pope...don't take this as a "jump". Agree with your that a transportation improvement can increase density. However, the Ballston example you provided simply does not apply to Cleveland. Northern DC's population is exploding while...well we know what the story is locally. In my opinion the entire DC metro area is the best example in the nation of transportation improvements increasing density and their TOD's are usually done very well. Again, however, it is a booming area.

Good post May Day. Now for my rant (which is basically a repeat of a rant on another thread about 2 months ago). I generally think the PD is a decent paper so I don't attack it with recklessly. But again, why do their writers needlessly attack Cleveland as poor, shrinking, failing, rusting, dead and struggling when the writer needs a hook to start an article. "In Cleveland, the poorest city in the nation, one of the best places to buy new spring fashions is...." The above was a generally positive article about the city but it had to start with negative quotes. This is just too easy (by the way Steve Litt is a master of this device). Can't the writers be a little more creative. To a certain extent the language and style Lubinger used is the above article is justified since he was talking about downtown development rather than spring fashions, but still it really starts to get old and wears on me. Also, the accompanying article about the Avenue District, Flats East Bank, E 4th and Pesht seems to contradict the hook of the article. In what "dying city" are private developers investing over a billion dollars in new construction.

Don't have that much of a problem with it although the street level on the Detroit side looks a little cold.

^I have heard the same thing about LRT in Buffalo from friends who live there. By the way, if I can recall correctly my urban transportation class from college (now this is going to be an effort 'cause it was a LONG time ago), for at least heavy rail (and perhaps light rail) to make economic sense you have to have a population density of 15,000 people per square mile. I would imagine the only place in Northeast Ohio that is the case is maybe Lakewood. A subway strictly down Euclid certainly does not meet those numbers. I have always thought that if a subway line was ever built (to come close to the density requirements although I am sure they still would not be met) and to connect key business and population centers on the west side, downtown and the east side, a line should run down Detroit starting on the Rocky River-Lakewood border to downtown, then down Euclid to University Circle and then up Cedar to about Richmond Rd. Does anybody have a spare 10 billion or so? Dream Dream Dream,

^this is going to get messy. ^^2 per cent ?????????????????????????????

^Actually not a bad idea except for one thing...those nasty Ohio voters.

216 you must not be highly educated as to the 20 year history of this project. But to answer one of your multiple questions, RTA would have never been able to obtain the federal funds to build a subway, or probably any type of rail line, down Euclid given Department of Transportation guidelines. Surprised to hear that they are actually beginning to install stations in the near future. Would have thought they would have wanted to give them a rest from at least one Cleveland winter since they will not be used for more than a year.

Well this is probably a great place to discuss how you raise the 300 to 400 mil. to build a convention center without any new taxes. Anybody have some good (and practical) ideas. Like mentioned above, it is not like the powers that be have failed to give it some thought the past 10 years.

Glad Stark is downtown but looking forward to when they tear that thing down in the future. Right now it reminds me of post war Berlin with all the surface lots surrounding that one ugly structure.

Have to agree with May Day. Coventry may have lost its "edge" but it is definitley one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in all of Cuyahoga County. Like Strap Hagger said, it has a vibrant street life all day long, especially in comparison to other neighborhoods. This is because the residential neighborhood is so dense and basically creeps on to the street. Also, it is not just nightime oriented with bars and different kinds of restaurants (although it has plenty of that) but it also has what a vibrant neighbor needs like banks, hair salons, dry cleaners, coffee shops, ice cream parlors a small grocery store (Marcs...and amazingly clean and ordered for a Marc's store) a library and other service shops. The restaurants are very diverse (from cheap eats to more expensive fare) as is the crowd on the street. All races, college kids, young families with strollers and older people. The new street scape which was completed a couple of years ago was very well done and is maintained very well. I live about a 10 minute walk away and am in the neighborhood quite often. There are always people around at all times of the day. Even my brother who is a staunch suburbanite is impressed by Coventry. It is without a doubt what everybody on this board clamors for": Old Urbanism".

^^It has been a long time since I visited the Gay Street thread but if I recall when it was first announced people on that thread were not exactly thrilled with it. Maybe that has changed since then. I will have to check it out.