Htsguy

Can anybody think of a stadium proposal nationwide that has been built when it has been opposed by both the city and the county. Even if you do have the money to do it yourself, think of all the absolutely necessary ancillary infrastructure which has to be completely to support the stadium. A thing like this cannot be built if you make yourself the enemy of the two largest public corporations in your region. What is this guy thinking? Complete arrogance.

I guess the question is why isn't that happening?

I don't know much about state government and the Ohio legislature's process so I might be speak out of my your know what, but it seems like any money from the state is getting pushed through without the usual scrutiny. Like an economic analysis by who ever does this at the state level for the legislature (something similar to the Congressional Budget Office I guess) or committee hearings. It seems like every time something we are rooting for on this Board is always bogged down in committees and then does not move forward during the current legislative term and then has to be re-submitted. Why isn't any bonding being "talked to death" especially since it will not end here. Cincy is going to have their hand out as well.

^empty retail for a possibly extended period of time is a bad look.

Another thought. Who the hell is advising Brookpark officials. Don't all the financial pitfalls and risk factors outlined by Ronayne apply to the city as well. Maybe even more so since even fewer resources to fall back on.

As someone firmly against the Brookpark site, I am glad at least that if it is indeed built in that city, the county will in no way be fiscally at risk. Obviously it is the state of Ohio that needs to get a clue. If blows my mind that the state is apparently not doing any of the modelling usually performed in conjunction with the issuance of such large bonds.

I remember a youtube video I saw a couple of years ago that went through both retail halls and they were virtually empty. I don't mean lack of people, although that was true as well, but virtually all the retail and restaurants were gone. At the time I also recall reading some news articles and the city administration seemed to be in panic mode regarding what Inner Harbor once was and what it had become, and were trying to get developers in to completely re-invent the place. I was really surprised as I had not heard about any of this. Last time I had been there was for a Browns game in the early 2000s and it was still thriving. Had a wonderful meal outside on of the halls along the harbor. I do recall, for some strange reason, our waiter, who was a native, hated the city and could not wait to leave. My buddy I went to the game with was not feeling too charitable as well as he had his wallet picked at the game. Guess who had to end up paying for dinner.

Has there ever been a determination as to what caused the fire?

In my day everybody almost always took a full hour for lunch and left the office, including the secretaries and support staff. Not the case anymore.

I saw that a couple of days again. It made me shiver thinking of our lakefront proposals. Inner Harbor is a ghost town now as well (or was a couple of years ago) although they apparently have some plans to fix the situation. Don't know how that is proceeding.

Surprised there haven't been any comments or discussions regarding Dan Conway and Great Lakes failed attempt to torpedo the Whalen hotel project in Ohio City.

The Ohio City thread is locked so I am posting here. It fits here as well, although the full discussion probably relates more to Ohio City in general given what occurred as outline below. Dan Whalen was before the Board of Zoning Appeals this morning for a use variance for the hotel proposed on Lorain in Ohio City. First the good news. The variance was approved unanimously. The troubling part was that Dan Conway and a Great Lakes Brewery attorney, among others, appeared before the Board to voice opposition to the granting of the variance. This apparently came out of nowhere according to the rep from OCI. The main issue was parking. Blah Blah Blah. You can view all the hand wringing on line. Also, it was noted that the hotel design still has to win final approval from Landmarks, but apparently the Landmarks Commission wanted the zoning variance issue resolved before they considered it. So I guess that is next. I imagine Whalen's financing was/is contingent on the use variance being granted so hopefully that came now move forward smoothly.

As I understand it we now get to pick and choose which federal laws we may or may not want to obey.

This might be a stupid question, but I wonder if Coke pays a product placement fee to be in a rendering similar to the above. They do it in movies and TV shows. Maybe some young turk marketing guru at the company has come up with a new small and obscure gimmick and solicits architecture firms.

Gee Whiz. I may be in the minority, but after 5 days I believe this CVSR discussion can officially be described as beating a dead horse. What is even more frustrating is that the original post that started it was so ill informed and mindless. Maybe all this is just evidence of a development slow down so we have nothing interesting to discuss. Please, somebody post a picture of the Cavs facility or speculate about Phase 1b.

I remember the Arcade being pretty active my early work career, starting in the early 80s and well into the 90s. It was around the turn of the century that it really started to fall off and definitely once the Hyatt went in.

Hanna Fountains were on the mall between St. Clair and Lakeside.

I believe the $20 million (at one point it was only $10mil after 20 had been promised) is the city's contribution to the market as owner to address years of deferred maintenance, which seems to always be in the case with the city. I believe the $50 million is a loan from the port which has to be paid back as I understand it. The new group behind the renovations and remaking of the market said a few years back they needed $60 mil., and the city only contributing $10 mil was going to hamper their efforts to fund raise from other sources (foundations etc.) because it gave the impression the city was not fully committed given the need. As I understand it you won't see $60 mil. worth of splashy new things to play with. The majority of the money is going to the nuts and bolts and behind the walls-mechanical work, new walk in coolers, lots of basement repairs and new stalls. The stuff you see in the renderings will only be a fraction of the money spent. All of the unsexy stuff is absolutely necessary and obviously very costly. I have great faith in the new body governing the market and the people behind it. From what I can tell they have been working now for 2-3 years, if not longer, to get a clear understand of the infrastructure deficiencies and how to address them. There are clearly many. Moreover, at the same time they have been hard at work studying other similar markets nationwide to get a feel for what works best in the new retail environment, and have also worked hard on a new business model and plan, things the city could hardly be bothered with. All of this takes a lot of $$$, especially given all the neglect by various administration over the years.

Rents seem pretty reasonable. About $2.00 a square foot. Of course 7-8 years ago we would have thought that price was crazy but with many new builds charging $3.50 and up not so much any more.

I really don't get your post. The point is that the attraction is that it is a train ride which are far and few between in the US, especially when compared to the automobile. As people have noted it is the train ride itself, with the added bonus of scenic views and a path to a National Park, that is what draws people. You keep trying to portray it as a form of fast and convenient transportation and that is clearly not its allure or purpose.

Obviously it is suppose to be developed eventually but I have not heard of anything actually in early stages or for that matter even proposed. And as we all know the development of the district has happened at a "deliberate" pace-from proposal to actual construction- so I don't expect anything vertical for a number of years. This might even be more of an issue with all the questions regarding the economy and the construction industry in general. Given the apparent popularity of the Raye you would think that developers would be jumping on those lots.

Your right. I think it would be a huge draw for tourists and used more by people from out of town visiting Cleveland (I believe the biggest cliental right now are locals) if you can board it downtown. I have a buddy coming into town next week for the first round of the NCAA basketball tournament and he is staying downtown. Games are Friday and Sunday so he is looking for something to do on Saturday. He has done the Rock Hall and Art Museum multiple times, so I think he would jump at a chance to ride the train. He is a big hiker and could possibly get off in the park or maybe just ride it all the way to Akron. Less likely it he has to find his way out to Rockside Road to do so.

You are correct. It is basically just a sight seeing train or an occasional adventure through some scenic landscapes. That is why I don't see the need to have it stop in Tower City itself, especially if it going to cost a fortune to make that happen. I would like to see it extended into downtown Cleveland, but a nicely appointed stop near Riverview as proposed is not a problem for me.

I have no problem with national chains in Ohio City as long as you have a nice mix of local independents and chains. Many successful walkable neighborhoods are like that. Hopefully OC becomes something similar to a mini Alexandria VA as an example.

I am only suggesting that it is very easy to spend other people's money. If you think SP as it stands now is not isolated than you should invest in a retail outlet and see how it does. I certainly would not take that chance. Downtown retail is hard enough nationwide without extending it to questionable locations.