gildone

^it was also posted on the Mass Transit board.

That's where there is some light industry. The project isn't quite what you'd expect. It's not just one overpass. It's an overpass over CSX (southern most tracks), then a section of elevated roadway with a ramp in the middle and another bridge to access the light industrial businesses between the tracks, then another section of elevated roadway and an overpass over the NS tracks (northernmost tracks). You can kind of get an idea with the drawings here: http://bereaohio.com/CityHall/engineering/Pub_Meeting.pdf Believe it or not, it was cheaper than lowering the roadway and having underpasses under both sets of tracks. It was originally going to be an underpass, but that would have required more land acquisition. There was just no easy way to do this project.

Told ya! :-D That's an area you just want to drive through and stop only if necessary (like if there's a train), except all the potholes make you go really slow. There are only four things I do on that street... get gas, wash my car, go to NAPA, or go to Berea Hardware (Although there is a Nuevo Acapulco restaurant there, but I like the mexican food at Maya on Bagley better...)

Andrew0816: I don't know. This is the first I've seen of this projects "resurrection" (it's really only a 'mention' at this stage). So, I think it's too preliminary to know for sure. There is a public meeting next Tuesday. I'll update everyone afterward. Thanks buckeye1 for the street view. Now everyone can see how ugly it is. It's kind of a narrow area. And with a main thoroughfare like Front Street right in the middle, I don't see how a true Legacy Village type place would work there.

Trust me... it's quite ugly. If it's true new urbanism, then it's the right idea, IMHO. I live in Berea, so I know the area well. My sense is the following: 1...that developers look for a different demographic for Crocker Parks and Legacy Villages than what is in that area. They tend to be built in upper middle class/wealthy areas. Berea/Brook Park's demographic is different than Westlake/Avon and Beachwood. There is a lot of middle and working class in the area. 2...Overall, the area is too small for a Crocker Park/Legacy Village type project, plus there are some well-established businesses and light industry in the area that Berea needs to retain. So, it would make more sense that they would just change the zoning in the area encourage different development. 3... the reporter just used "Crocker Park style" as a generic descriptor because papers are written at an 8th grade level and most people wouldn't know what "new urbanism" means. In any event, I'll report back next week....

...." where streets are lined with mixed use commercial and office space complete with townhouse and apartment style living above" "Crocker-park style" doesn't automatically mean an all single-private-entity owned mall-substitute like Crocker Park. So, you can't make that assumption either. I'll find out at the public meeting next week... And again, how about explaining what you'd like to see instead of just saying no??

Well, then what would you two suggest in place of the ugliness that's there now? Besides, they are talking mixed use... commercia/office, residential, retail... that is to say "new urbanism" type development. Isn't that one of the things that UO'ers like?

I'm slow today... Is that sarcasm? What's there now is probably the ugliest strip in the entire city with a bunch of unattractive single-use buildings and fast food joints set back from the street. I'd much rather have what is being proposed... and the red line and/or Ohio Hub stop to boot.

Rumblings that the project may be resurrected: http://www.cleveland.com/newssun/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/123740693218810.xml&coll=4 Overpass is bridge to the future' Thursday, March 19, 2009 By Jaime Anton [email protected] The News Sun BEREAThe Front Street overpass could be a bridge of possibilities for the north end of town. Imagine driving north over a finished railroad overpass and heading straight into a Crocker Park style shopping district, where streets are lined with mixed use commercial and office space complete with townhouse and apartment style living above. Mayor Cyril Kleem said this is but a glimpse of what Berea's north end could be...

Very preliminary... but Berea's mayor is thinking in the right terms: http://www.cleveland.com/newssun/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/123740693218810.xml&coll=4 Overpass is bridge to the future' Thursday, March 19, 2009 By Jaime Anton [email protected] The News Sun BEREAThe Front Street overpass could be a bridge of possibilities for the north end of town. Imagine driving north over a finished railroad overpass and heading straight into a Crocker Park style shopping district, where streets are lined with mixed use commercial and office space complete with townhouse and apartment style living above. Mayor Cyril Kleem said this is but a glimpse of what Berea's north end could be...

I know a lot of people may not want to do this, but I think it would be a good idea to call/e-mail Senator Patton and thank him for listening to Ohioans and not stripping the 3-C provision from the bill. Let's take the high road. On another note: I agree with seanmcl, this isn't over yet. This was just the beginning.

They voted him for 8 years in the House. He jumped to the Senate after he was term limited. At least he finally compromised. We still have our work cut out though. There's still plenty of skepticism in the Ohio Senate.

^We have the data. We have the facts. They went into an information packet that was distributed at the press conference today and distributed to the legislature. What we need now is a well organized machine made up of all the different groups that made this possible (listed in no particular order): All Aboard Ohio, The Ohio Environmental Council, Sierra Club, Progress Ohio, Rail Labor, local and county governments, chambers of commerce, and the business community,etc (I'm told Progress Ohio alone organized 8,000 phone calls). The next step is for all the different parties that supported this to come together and put together a strategy for the next step. It looks like we're going to get about 5 months to get ready (Amtrak study comes out in August). Let's get to it!

^You can add the mayors of Berea and Brook Park to that list.

^what senior moments? :wink:

Actually, I would argue that it's not. It's just that the savvy younger folks leave Ohio for places that happen to be more forward thinking.

They'd get even better value in Ohio if Patton would support the 3-C corridor project... 4/5 of the benefit will be for freight rail.

^teebtong... makes you want to move to a state that gives a darn, doesn't it?

^where on the page is the TMACOG piece, I can't seem to find it. EDIT: nevermind, my slow brain finally figured it out ;)

That's a better farebox recovery than public transit. Too bad Senator Patton doesn't get it...

I was able to dial in on my cell phone and listen while I was working. I thought the press conference went very well. I have to commend Bill Cohen at the Statehouse News Bureau for asking all of the questions being asked by the skeptics and I have to commend KJP, Jack Shaner from the OEC, and Patrick Simmons for how well they answered them! Patrick Simmons was very interesting. North Carolina has to be one of the most progressive conservative states in the country when it comes to transportation.

Me too, but he's probably tired of hearing from me.

Here's the final version of the Mayor's letter. Please distribute. The moment for passenger rail in Ohio is NOW. This and the resolution that was posted a couple of weeks ago must be spread far and wide: March 15, 2009 The Honorable Thomas F. Patton Senator, Ohio Senate District 24 Chair, Highways and Transportation Committee Senate Building Room 140, First Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215 Re: Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland Corridor Passenger Rail Service Dear Senator Patton: As Mayor of the City of ____________ _____, I wish to express my support for the Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland (3C) passenger rail corridor proposal. As you know, this is the first step toward implementing the Ohio Hub Plan, which when completed will connect all of Ohio's major cities with each other and connect Ohio with neighboring states with fast, frequent, rail passenger service. Ultimately, the Ohio Hub will also connect with several international airports, thus enhancing Ohio's connection to the global economy. Other states that have invested in passenger rail corridors have realized economic benefits that exceed the costs of the initial investment and on-going operating support. The proposed $250 million investment in conventional speed (79-mph) 3C Corridor services will likely result in the creation of 6,000 new jobs; $195 million in earnings and $625 million in business sales according to the US Department of Commerce RIMS II economic impact model. According to the economic impact studies completed for the Ohio Rail Development Commission (ORDC) under Governor Taft’s Administration, the Ohio Hub at full build out will generate over 16,000 jobs, increase property values throughout the state, and generate economic benefits in excess of $17 billion. This includes $9 billion in direct user benefits, $3 billion in new development near stations and increased air traffic at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport adding another $1 billion in direct economic impact. In addition, Ohio has over 100 companies that provide products and services to the rail industry employing thousands of union laborers. If anything, investment in passenger rail will enhance the state's finances over the long run. The 2001 Tracking Ohio Poll shows that Ohioans want more travel choices. Two studies conducted by the ORDC show that the Ohio Hub Plan at full build out will be used by 9.3 million passengers annually. The 3C Corridor would account for nearly one-third of that total ridership. Initially 3C Corridor trains will need to be subsidized. But the economic payback has exceeded the cost in every other state that has funded passenger rail service. The returns come in the form of increased state revenues from sales taxes, incomes taxes and local property taxes, which are deposited into the state and local treasuries and not the farebox. Furthermore, ORDC has determined that at full build out, Ohio Hub train revenues will cover operating costs. At a recent event at Union Station in Washington, DC, Vice President Joseph Biden strongly defended the government subsidies that go to the nation’s rail system and said he was “tired of apologizing for help for Amtrak….Every passenger rail service system in the world relies on subsidies. We subsidize our highways and airports more than we subsidize Amtrak. So let's get something straight here. Amtrak has not been at the trough. Amtrak has been left out of the trough. Amtrak has been left out much too long.” The Vice President went on to say that Amtrak is “an absolute national treasure and necessity.” I agree. Ohio needs a 21st Century transportation system and the economic development that will result from investing in passenger rail. Ohio also needs to diversify its transportation system to provide people with more travel choices particularly when airlines and Greyhound are cutting services to small cities and towns throughout the country and in Ohio. Passenger rail service can enhance the competitiveness of Ohio's economy and increase the productivity of business travelers and students, reduce energy dependency, reduce air pollution and carbon emissions, and improve mobility for Ohio's aging population and the 8.5% of Ohio households that do not own cars. Generally, the 3C service will enhance the quality of life of all of Ohio's citizens. I urge you to support this important investment in Ohio's future just like I do. Sincerely, Mayor cc: Senator Steve Buehrer Senator Capri Cafaro Senator Gary Cates Senator Teresa Fedor Senator David Goodman Senator Bill Harris Senator Tim Schaeffer Senator Nina Turner Senator Jason Wilson

It's coming, trust me. What's really interesting about this is that All Aboard Ohio came out in support of the gas tax increase that the OCA pushed for under the Taft administration.

Hmmm... sounds like ORDC needs to leak that little factoid to the Dispatch. Actually, how do we go about a public records request for that document??? I'd be glad to send it to the dispatch.