sonisharri

Yes, Modern.

I think you're probably correct that the number of Cleveland area residents who desire dense conditions is relatively low, on the demand side of the equation. However, that group of people does still exist, and the supply of dense neighborhoods available is very low too. Compare cities like Cincy, Pittsburgh, etc. and there's far more to choose from. Not to mention the people who move to Cleveland from elsewhere for job reasons but prefer dense conditions. Or people who leave Cleveland because it's not dense enough who would have otherwise stayed. One approach would be to develop the lakefront with parking/retail podiums that could allow residential to be added once demand exists (a la The Beacon). Initial development could also focus on new hotels to satisfy sky-high demand.

I responded in the hotel thread with some more context. They only looked at centrally-located hotels with 3+ stars... same for all of the other cities.

Thought I should repost this here for the debate about hotel demand. According to a Boutique Hotelier survey in 2023, Cleveland was the fourth priciest city for hotel rooms, with an average rate of $234 a night For context, the survey in question looked at prices in October (apparently the most expensive month) in 50 US destinations. Only centrally-located hotels with 3-stars or above were considered, and prices are for the cheapest available room. This actually makes the comparison a bit more head-to-head with other cities. Here are a selection of prices on Expedia for October 18-19, 2025 (a full 9 months away) if you're still not sure: - Cleveland Marriot Downtown $427 - Holiday Inn Express $264 - Metropolitan at The 9 $530 - Comfort Inn Downtown $362 (???) - Hampton Inn Downtown $222 - Aloft Cleveland Downtown $449 - Fidelity Hotel $378

Idk whether this is restricted to the city proper but I've seen this stat mentioned in like half a dozen places. Out of state visitors react to Cleveland high hotel room rates https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2024/03/01/visitors-in-cleveland-pay-a-lot-of-money-for-a-hotel-room

Please don't. I doubt it will still be standing when he leaves 😥 I love good parks but it's painful to watch cities level their most historic neighborhoods for more grass. There are quite literally hundreds of acres of empty land downtown between vacant lots, industry, parking... and Burke. Go eminent domain a surface lot or something. I know a lot of people think the silos look ugly, weird, out of place, etc. But preservation isn't just about aesthetics, it's also about keeping the history of the city alive. These are the last of their kind and tell an important story about the evolution of Cleveland's economy. Sure, we can build another historical neighborhood-themed recreational park (Irishtown Bend made sense because it probably would've fallen into the river otherwise), but razing the actual historic neighborhood block-by-block just to commemorate it with a plaque feels wrong.

Yeah I think the quotes definitely sent the wrong message, I was just trying to refer to @surfohio's last sentence, not doubt that the neighborhood has character. My point is 1) it's already characterized by a variety of styles and uses, and 2) the townhomes seem to me to provide a transition between the taller apartments and the smaller homes. The screenshot is just the Google Street View of the townhome site with one structure on either side, zoomed out enough to fit everything on my phone. The finger drawings are obviously not to scale but I estimated using the surrounding buildings.

I agree that connections to development will be a key factor in the success of the land bridge; I believe the lack of surrounding (pedestrian-generating) development is one of the main reasons the mall has always been so empty. And the fact that there's literally nothing there. That's also why I don't think it's fair to assume an extension to the mall would necessarily have the same fate. The lakefront would have much more pedestrian oriented development that would drive activity. I don't imagine a wider land bridge as another big grass mall (the current iteration of the mall is mostly like that because it's the roof of the convention center). Instead I'd really like to see something like the land bridge currently under construction in Philly with a variety of active uses: Whether this is feasible is another question. But with the stadium likely gone, it might be time for a paradigm shift from it's original conception as a people-highway for mega events to a public square for a new lakefront neighborhood. Now that there's more room for development that's actually financially sustainable (*cough, cough*) I think the cost could be justified long-term.

The "neighborhood" neighborhood in question is a mix of multi-family, large single family homes, and some apartments. The building next door is literally a modern 6-story apartment tower sandwiched between old homes. Not to mention the gas stations right down the street. Adding a few more single family homes to the street (the others would front w 13th pl) with the exact same setback doesn't seem that ridiculous to me, especially compared to many of the other designs around Tremont. If anything I think it will be a much more natural transition between the apartments and the lower density SFHs.

I appreciate how almost everyone in the comments also points out how stupid this is... they could literally move to any other street downtown. https://www.instagram.com/p/DE5YpbgPFJH/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Yeah I completely agree. I feel like making it a bridge rather than a cap has a big impact on people's perception. An extension of the park is a place in itself; a really long bridge just frames it as the means to get to a place—and a pretty inefficient one at that. The waterfront line already takes people from public square to the lakefront, with the added benefit of protection from the elements.

Same, I'd kill to have these on my street. I totally understand wanting to save old homes from demolition but these are not the ones to focus on. There are literally hundreds of historically and architecturally unique houses in Fairfax, Glenville, Hough, etc. in constant disrepair and definitely tons around the near west side. With demand to live in Tremont soaring, building new housing stock is a necessary tradeoff to mitigate the displacement of longtime residents. I imagine that other neighborhoods will become the new hotspots soon enough, once Tremont is mostly "built out."

Nah, teaching your kid to ride the train alone builds independence. Plus, shouldn't RTA at least act like transit security is good enough to prevent child kidnappings? (caution: renderings are aspirational) If it makes you more comfortable, the parents are just out of frame to the left ;) Or maybe, the kid's height is just below-average for his age.

Boston has deeper problems with affordability including NIMBYism and a zoning code almost 4,000 pages long. With their job growth significantly outpacing housing construction they will need to make significant reforms before any old urban neighborhoods can be affordable again. The Flats might be the closest thing to an attached neighborhood if it weren't for the Port of Cleveland. But I think downtown could be made to feel contiguous with the lakefront with strategic development and infrastructure.

I guess "build it and they will come" applies to parking too. Just because it's used doesn't necessarily mean it's necessary.

For those unfamiliar, this is what 2 decades of downtown waterfront development can look like:

TOG = Transit-Oriented Gas station ;) I'm all seriousness the cafe concept would be really cool. I've always loved how the Shaker Square station has a built-in diner.

The rent may be high but he'll be combining two Edwin's locations into one space, and hosting multiple different concepts inside. The flipside of that corner remaining "unproven" is that there may be less competition. The Shaker Square location competes with high end restaurants on Larchmere as well.

Yeah this is exactly what I envision for the Flats. Also why I was a little bummed that the east end of Canal Basin park will end up as surface parking instead of recreating a small portion of the old neighborhood on Columbus Rd. On the lakefront I would love to see something similar to Boston's Seaport District, albeit smaller, with a variety of buildings in a modern style and a walkable street grid. I think it would provide an interesting contrast with our historic downtown and force people to rethink their impression of the city.

Yes the Shaker Square location will remain empty while they pay the rent until another tenant is found. I can understand why they like the Nighttown location, and it seems like they're taking it as an opportunity to refine the restaurant concept. Compared to Balaton, moving a mile or two away seems like a better fate. FWIW, I've lived near Edwin's for over a year and a half and I've still never tried it because of the price (as much as I want to). I could see them having more success with the Cleveland Heights crowd. Edit: the one place I actually have been is Edwin's Bakery, which happens to be one of the remaining locations.

I'm pretty confident about the future of Shaker Square. There are already (2?) new restaurants scheduled to open and Edwin's is a prime location for another; I'm pretty certain it will be getting busier here and not emptier. The infrastructure work and building repairs have made a big difference as well. I've been noticing some of the interior work at Coyoacan whenever I walk past and they've recently installed chandeliers. It's definitely going to be a nice spot and I'm planning to check it out as soon as I can.

Actually, here's an even crazier idea as improbable as it may be... renovate the Eagle Ave Lift Bridge into a new ped/bike bridge across Main Ave. Both spans are about 300ft.

I'm a big fan of historic bridges so I'm not gonna say I support demolition, but if it's determined that that's the most realistic option then it would be interesting to see it replaced with something similar to what was there before. A direct pedestrian connection between the flats East/West banks would be extremely valuable IMO.

This is why I say major infrastructure upgrades like this should coincide with major upzoning. It's very difficult to justify the cost for a street with 50 single family homes vs hundreds of apartments. Hopefully, this can also cultivate a sense that more neighbors = better neighborhoods

I think I like @Geowizical's idea - just incrementally bury the power lines 🙂. If we can continue to upzone streets that should help generate the tax base necessary to pay for the improvements. I like the dedication, but blackouts can be quite disruptive for people depending on their needs. Even short blackouts can reset alarm clocks, disable medical devices, etc. and longer blackouts might spoil weeks' worth of food or prevent internet access for work. Especially in a working class city these effects are quite harsh if only for the purpose of making trees grow fuller.