tabasco

Are you sure about that? There are franchises there now: https://www.peaceloveandlittledonuts.com/franchise Or does this only apply to new development projects?

If the developers build to right within the confines of the existing zoning code with no ordinances then I don't believe that there is any reason they would be held up at all. That is what I would expect to happen if the ballot box goes against them.

This is going to be pretty painful for those that cannot avoid the area on their daily commutes over the next dozen weeks. https://www.wcpo.com/traffic/full-pavement-repairs-to-shut-down-parts-of-intersection-at-rookwood-for-3-months

Guys, it is easy to forget that we are in a pro development echo chamber here. This project is widely opposed whether you want to believe it or not and there is a growing wave of resentment from motivated voters toward the way that this council and mayor have handled zoning and development. For context, the 13,434 valid signatures that they collected in 3 weeks is almost 60% of the turnout (22,704) of the May election. Turnout will be higher in November but it will still be pathetically low and there are single issue highly motivated voters that will turn out to vote against this development. I will go on record now with a prediction: voters will vote to repeal the zoning ordinance. It's possible that this issue could even flip 1-2 seats on council to independents or charterites but I am not willing to predict that will happen at this point due to a lack of viable candidates. The developers will then build to right and put together what is still a good development with some more apartments and about the same amount of retail. All will not be lost with this outcome and it will still bring a drastic change and breathe some much needed life into the square.

I too despise this exit, especially when an event releases in the UC area and people that are not as familiar with the area are flocking to the highway. I stay straight on McMillan to go home and have been cut off so many times by last second swervers that I have lost count. I am not sure there is a lot that can be done to improve it. My other favorite McMillan quirk is the relatively newer massive speed cushion in EWH that has claimed the suspensions and front fascia of many unsuspecting drivers. The grooves in the pavement on either side of the cushion tell the tale.

10% turnout....yes there were only 2 items on the ballot but that is no excuse for such a pathetic effort by the populace of this city.

Posting this here since this is on Aftab. The administration clearly tried to keep this quiet. The city manager just keeps making mistakes and no one cares. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2025/05/05/cincinnati-city-hall-protest-gaza-engineer-fired-spitting/83373307007/

Not to delve too much off topic here but SBUX and CMG rent from individual random building owners all the time. More than likely OTR just doesn't fit the profile for what they are currently looking for with new stores (and I am thankful for that). Both chains are really looking for drive thru windows at all of their new locations these days unless they have extremely high foot traffic at all days/hours in which case they can make the numbers work without a drive thru. I think what Lazarus is getting at is the retail component could look pretty darn generic. The problem with retail like this is that the cost of building new retail vs. buying an existing asset is way skewed toward buy in almost all geographic markets right now. To make the ROIC work for greenfield retail is very difficult because of the cost of new construction. I believe that this is the reason PLK is pushing so hard for the hotel because it does bring a constant stream of visitors that eat out every meal, etc. which can help make the retail component work. And there is no doubt that the inclusion of a hotel makes adjacent space a lot more attractive for national chains. But the rents of this new space will also be difficult for local concepts to swallow especially a business that is new or not well established. It is entirely possible we could get some generic looking storefronts. Calhoun is the first thing that comes to mind as every time I am through there I think to myself just how terribly generic most of the business are. Hopefully it doesn't end up that bad but we can't really rule that out - just my 2 cents.

I think they will start to run out of steam when it becomes more widely recognized that, even if they "win" the referendum, the end result is going to be a lot more apartments and fewer parking spaces because the developers will build to right. So what are they really accomplishing other than delaying construction, the elimination of the hotel and a shorter structure? It's still going to be a massive change to the square and parking will likely end up worse than it is today and much worse with a different project that does not incorporate a garage with public spaces.* *Parking is not an issue in the square in my opinion and likely won't be in the future. No one ever seems to mention the paid surface lot that exists behind Arthur's and the other business in that area that is never full. It's been a while since I used it but it has always been dirt cheap and not much more than a meter and possibly even cheaper than a meter given the increase in rates. I would be willing to entertain the argument that a hotel with a large event space could produce some parking issues coincident with events but that is all hypothetical at this point without knowing the details on the event space.

Ha yes some of the wording on the ballot issues and referendums in recent years has been absurd. Paragraph after paragraph to the point where if you are not familiar with the issue going in you will have a hard time discerning what you are even voting for or against.

That is a lot of signatures in 3 weeks. I am skeptical that they can pull it off.

I get where you are coming from but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omelet. There have been repeated problems in the plaza. The plaza is a very small stretch of real estate. The city must protect this area at all costs due to OOT visitors, people from around the region, Reds/Bengals fans, etc. The time window of this enforcement is very small --only Friday and Saturday nights and only after 10pm. The entire area closes at 2am so you are talking about 4 hours a night for two nights a week. A lot of these nights will not have a Reds game because the team is on the road. It simply doesn't impact enough people for me to get outraged about it but the few that it does impact are (allegedly) the ones making trouble in the area. I would also argue that there is not much in this area that would be (legally) attractive to a 17-18yr old and certainly not after 10pm. Jimmy John's closes at 9pm. There's just no good reason for them to be there other than to potentially cause or get into trouble. Unfortunately as others have surmised above this doesn't really solve anything and more than likely just makes them take their issues elsewhere. I can see it being a bit of a bummer for the 19-20yr old out with their 21-22yr old friends who are unable to accompany their friends into the DORA plaza. In which case the group likely just goes somewhere else.

WVXU did a segment on HP square today. I was hoping for some high entertainment from the callers but it was pretty short and they only took a few calls/statements. WVXUTensions flare between community councils and citywide el...When it comes to development, how do leaders balance neighborhood concerns and the need for progress?

I did see from the March Enquirer article that Walsh was the first to get enough signatures. Not surprising since the guy always seems to be in campaign mode.

There has been some recent discussion in the Hyde Park development thread about upset residents vowing retribution at the ballot box. Will some enterprising individual(s) try to seize on the outrage to mount a campaign? For Council candidates, nominating petitions are due August 21, 2025, 75 days before the general election to be held on November 4, 2025. Petitioners for either Mayor or Council must obtain at least 500 (but no more than 1,000) signatures from current registered City voters to be included on the ballot. Nolan is probably the most at risk because he was an appointee and then Walsh if we go off the numbers from the last election. I am skeptical and it would take a strong campaign to overcome a slate of endorsed Democrats but I wouldn't be totally shocked if a Charterite or non-endorsed Democrat could pick off a seat or possibly even two. Parks is retiring so there is one spot for an endorsed Democrat. Anyone without an endorsement would need to run an anti development campaign and promise connected communities repeal/reform. Turnout is typically higher on the east side and it is an off-year election so it could be an interesting race to follow. Here is an article from March that lists those planning to run: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2025/03/19/cincinnati-city-council-race-in-full-swing-with-27-candidates/81358563007/

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I think we are mostly in agreement here and largely talking past each other. I did not opine on ILA or connected communities fwiw. I should have clarified that I am impressed with the "grassroots" opposition, not HPNC specifically. I disagree that it is easy to rally folks in any type of organized manner and they did a pretty decent job of it (again, my opinion). It has to be like herding cats. Any one of these people can go off the rails in public comment sessions at any time which paints the entire group with a broad brush of craziness. They can't exhibit much control over what individual folks in the neighborhood do. They spent a lot of time, money and effort trying to oppose this at a level I have not previously seen before. People are busier and more distracted than ever so to get them to pay attention to anything and turn out in numbers is impressive to me, even if a lot of them don't work or are retired. I totally agree with your take on the precedent portion of their argument and literally laughed out loud the first time I read that in one of their emails. They clearly played fast and loose with facts but they were trying to win so I don't blame them. Politicians do it all the time. Bottom line, I am merely giving a hat tip to the opposition. Nothing more.

Seriously?? I am sure there is some really stupid stuff in the 1'000 public comments but let's not pretend that this was the common theme of the opposition. We are talking about a boutique hotel and luxury apartments that will go for 3k+ a month How can one even form a classist, racist argument against such a thing unless they are totally unhinged in which case they should be dismissed as the exception and not the rule. Now if we were taking about a CMHA low income housing development then yes I would expect to see some really ugly comments but for this project? Pretty much everyone is pro development on this board but I think it's helpful to look at all sides and not paint the opposition as total dolts.

It's fair to criticize the communication of the neighborhood and HPNC. I just cringe at how quickly the race card gets tossed around these days. I was actually really impressed with how organized they were which is why I posted that video they did. I don't endorse their views but respect their right to protest. I haven't seen an anti development effort that was this large and well organized. I have no idea why Harris left. I assume he got a better job? Probably a better topic for the city council thread.

This is the second time in a few posts that you have claimed the opposition is racist or has used racist arguments which is a pretty hefty accusation. Care to expand on that at all?

https://youtu.be/lr6A9XdJAYc?si=2PSoFdIOoPvkGcWm

You are correct, I meant to say Snow Trails not Mad River. Snow Trails and the now defunct Clear Fork were very close to one another.

I am not a fan of Nashville and am mystified by its popularity but I think you are selling both it and Austin short on tourism. People go to both cities specifically for live music whether it is a big event or to check out a bunch of smaller venues. They have us beat on tourism alone simply due to the music scenes. I also would not overlook the impact that UT-Austin has had on the success of the city. It has had a huge enrollment forever and is regarded as an elite public college the draws well nationwide. Big research $$ and good sports too. Austin has a nice niche with tech companies as well and has carved itself out as a mini silicon valley due to its relatively lower cost of living vs. California (Dell, Google, IBM, Apple, etc.). Nashville on the other hand..I guess the country music capital of the world is worth something and they have a nice healthcare industry but to me it is pretty generic, but obviously popular with many. They have done a nice job of recruiting wall street co's in recent years which has helped their success too. Our corporate scene in Cinci is great but we really need a win to expand even more, like a start up that strikes it big and grows organically and locally.

I cannot believe these things are trading for close to $2mm. That is a tough, tough location traffic wise. Zero yard. Attached to your neighbors. Wall to wall parking in front of your house every Sunday for the Farmers Market and again for Knox church services. Constant cut through traffic to avoid one of the worst intersections in the city (Observatory & Edwards). Hyde Park school parents illegally parking in front of your house every day school is in session to drop their kids off. 2.5 years of PLK square construction about to disrupt your daily life. I can see these getting bought up by empty nesters looking to simplify only to later realize they made a grave mistake. Why not just buy at the condo across the street or at Michigan Terrace or at 2801 Erie? Or a detached SFH at any other number of locations in Hyde Park if you have 2mm to spend? Yeah but TaX aBaTeMeNt!!!

Apropos of the recent Burnett Woods discussion. The city is wrapping up repairs on one of the restrooms and will soon spend more on the restroom near the shelter. I don't have a feel for how much these are used so don't have any opinion on the ROI. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2025/03/28/how-much-do-cincinnati-hamilton-county-parks-spend-on-bathrooms/82414493007/

You are correct, but anyone coming from those cable news channels is a known partisan and does not masquerade as an actual journalist for what is supposed to be the premier local news source.