Old AmrapinVA

You forgot urine puddles.

CAK is pretty much just back to 10 years ago when it was just Air Tran and the hub destinations. I don't think it changes much, if u have the opportunity save money, it's a good place to travel from...but you were never getting anywhere unique. Will be real interesting to see how the southwest flights to Atlanta stack up against Delta What is Delta flying on Cleveland-Atlanta? Is it mostly Delta Connection stuff or is it mainline aircraft? If the split Spirit operation fails and they consolidate at Hopkins, Akron-Canton's operation will go full circle back to the mid-1990s when it was just a spoke airport for various legacy airline hubs. I even think Continental briefly dabbled in Akron/Canton-Hopkins before the post-9/11 security restrictions.

Closings in Ohio: Two in the Columbus area: Eastland Mall Mall at Tuttle Crossing Also: Sandusky Mall Fort Stuben Mall

From upthread

Southwest is closing down Akron-Canton. Cleveland is getting 3x daily service to Atlanta. Additional flight to St. Louis, making it 2x daily. Spirit will practically have Akron-Canton to itself now with Allegiant moving to Hopkins as well. Wonder if Spirit will move their entire operation there now.

Those are boastful remarks. I'm assuming there is a promise of increased service? You could operate all those flights effectively off of just two gates. Using the second mainly for weather issues and the overnight parking of aircraft.

:roll: Southwest announced direct routes from CVG to Chicago and Baltimore. (EDIT: I think starting in June) That's it? Well that's very Southwest. No issues with JetBlue either.

The death watch for the DL mini-hub could be on if this is true.

I wouldn't think so. In the region, Detroit and Cleveland have both Southwest and JetBlue. Maybe SW will do a big launch but I have a feeling it will be BWI/Chicago-Midway/Denver, something to central Florida and some Phoenix/Las Vegas combo. On the outside: St. Louis/Nashville/Dallas-Love/New Orleans/Oakland. Maybe, maybe Ft. Lauderdale. SW has a pretty decent operation in Columbus and Indy. Not quite sure how much they want to overlap with those markets initially. So JetBlue could still enter and do Boston and Fort Lauderdale with no real issue from SW.

The increased competition will be good for the market but not so great for the DL mini-hub.

DePodesta is going to argue to take the #1 pick and trade it down since the Browns have the Eagles pick. Analytics scream out the Browns are so talent deficient they will need even more picks for the 2018 draft. It will be interesting to see who wins the power struggle because you have to believe Hue (and possibly Sashi) won't want to pass on a high draft pick again. Also, Hue should not have said the Browns will go not 1-15 again under his watch. In almost every "Moneyball" teardown, Year 2 is the bottom.

Somebody looked at the numbers upthread. Even at peak hours, it's not that many busses crossing the square. I think the bigger issue for some is not the actual buses themselves but the people riding them. And there were planning meetings both public and private where all these issues should have been addressed. Screaming about terrorism after the Square was finished is just beyond stupid. The mayor, to me, looks like a fool. While other cities are focusing on master plans to transform their urban areas, Cleveland is still stuck in the finger pointing 1970s.

JetBlue has said that their CLE station opened with better loads than any other of their recent BOS expansion cities; so they are pleased and have expanded by adding a third flight to BOS. I suspect their next add will be a second flight to Fort Lauderdale. Yes, they will need another hub somewhere down the road. Will it be CLE? I doubt it unless the area begins showing population growth again. I suspect their priority will be placed on transatlantic service out of BOS/JFK for the next few years. I agree. I still think JetBlue could make adds like JFK, Orlando and possibly Oakland and/or Long Beach if United were to reduce service to LAX/San Fran. On a side note, it was nice to see Frontier bring back Portland and Seattle for the summer. A lot of this service will also be on their larger Airbus 321 aircraft. Have to think Alaska will take a stab at Cleveland. It's also interesting to hear United's CEO Munoz say they will focus on domestic routes for 2017. This new focus might bode well to getting increased service or maybe reestablishment of closed markets. We'll see.

I think you're missing the totality of everything that's being said here in this and other threads. The fact is what MissinOhio just noted -- look at the lack of cranes in our skyline. We're just not building that much in Cleveland compared to other cities. And what we do build here is HEAVILY subsidized if not outright owned by the public-sector. Not missing it and even said financing could be the issue. Just like to know the reason from a trusted, fact-verified source. Second hand conversation is great for these threads, no doubt.

What info? A second hand conversation. It could very well be true but no facts have been presented towards why there is a delay.

Despite all the office adaptive reuse, the office market in Cleveland still remains pretty soft. My (and others) argument for a more vibrant downtown has been an aggressive mechanism to create jobs in the region. When jobs are mentioned we get into the "Cleveland is in transition" argument. It's a fine point but then don't expect something like this project to come on-line quickly or possibly ever. The are plenty of North American markets creating more jobs and office/retail/housing demand than the Cleveland area. One is more likely to invest somewhere where the market is stronger to get a quicker ROI. It is what it is.

You guys tell us not to jump on Stark but then assume it's all about the financing. The lenders may be weary because Stark can't line up any retailers. Or maybe there is an issue how Stark wants the project financed. Or there could be a third party involved that is slowing things down. The one truth about this project is that we don't know why it's not moving forward. I still believe his aggressive deadline schedule from the beginning was a message for someone. Not quite sure who. That being said people have every right to be skeptical of Stark. He's track record shows he's great at delivering something in Westlake, not so much downtown.

It was a little humor. Hence the :). Gotta love UO sometimes!

Nothing says "southern" like Chicago! :)

Domestic: 1. Queens 2. The Bronx 3. Manhattan 4. Brooklyn 5. Staten Island International: 1. Queens 2. The Bronx 3. Manhattan 4. Brooklyn 5. Staten Island :-D :-D :-D

This is a screenshot from the developers 2016 annual report, it talks about the project, I have also included text of what is going on with some of their other projects as the challenges could be similar here. Glad to hear that they have progress on it and that retailers are showing interest. Depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are, this could be a gigantic draw for the city How could this ever be a gigantic draw? This developer builds lower end brand outlet malls next to interstates. There are already two of these in the area at Aurora and Lodi. It won't be a regional draw. Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit and Buffalo all have outlet malls of their own. There's nothing unique going into this Outlet Center and it could be built almost anywhere else in the city. We'll see after it's built. (And by the way, I clearly said "depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are") The developer is very, very clear on the type of facilities it builds. I don't expect this one to be any different: A regular to low-end outlet mall. The only difference from their other projects is the parking will be stacked in Cleveland. Not sure if this has anything to do with them being "urban" on their part, I think it's more due to the limited size of the lot and the amount of cars they expect. I agree the city needs the tax revenue. That being said it will likely be half-filled (or less) in 10 years when the next big retail thing comes along in the region. Then what? Another but larger Galleria on the Lake?

Surprised Columbus didn't score this!?! I guess Mr. Haslam is already looking at getting another franchise now that his Browns are in full meltdown mode. Assuming Cbus gets a World Cup qualifier at the 'Shoe?

This is a screenshot from the developers 2016 annual report, it talks about the project, I have also included text of what is going on with some of their other projects as the challenges could be similar here. Glad to hear that they have progress on it and that retailers are showing interest. Depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are, this could be a gigantic draw for the city How could this ever be a gigantic draw? This developer builds lower end brand outlet malls next to interstates. There are already two of these in the area at Aurora and Lodi. It won't be a regional draw. Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit and Buffalo all have outlet malls of their own. There's nothing unique going into this Outlet Center and it could be built almost anywhere else in the city.

I agree to a point. Places like Los Angeles, Dallas and Houston have maintained their older population centers for the most part but population density is still very low overall. Despite growth I don't think anyone will confuse those cities with Toronto or Tokyo anytime soon. I just think the GTA is reaching a changing point. Most of the growth over the last half-century has been centered on a line from Hamilton to Scarborough that has pushed northward away from the lake. The Tornoto-Hamilton area had the bones to be a denser city for a long time so it's not that surprising. The push to the east will be interesting. Oshawa/Whitby are pretty small places in comparison and don't really have a lot of urban infrastructure in place. Clearly the 407 is being extended there to move development in that direction. The condo craze is going to level out at some point. The GTA is quickly becoming unaffordable to many of it's residents as foreign investments increasingly drive the boom. If it busts I do wonder if the east suburbs of Toronto will be lower density as market demand changes. We'll see.

The 401 is the widest expressway in North America for a long stretch between Pearson and Scarborough. The 407 toll-road extension project is carving out tons of farmland as it's being built out past Oshawa/Whitby and connecting with the 401 creating monster interchanges. All the land east of Markham and north of Oshawa will be the next area that will be developed out for sure. Toronto is not sprawl free at all. The GTA needs all those rails because places like Mississauga and North York have very little commercial space despite the residential high-rises. Toronto continues to lag behind most US metros of similar size for commercial space and was never that strong to begin with over the decades. It's not Dubai or Singapore in that regard. Proof is that fact that despite all the condo growth, Toronto's largest office building was built in '75.