Old AmrapinVA

Beyond the macro stuff being discussed only Pittsburgh and Houston have slower job growth y-o-y than Cleveland when looking at the top 30 metros over the first three months of the year. Part of the labor force decline is simply people moving away to areas with better employment opportunities. Almost every metro in the nation has recovered job losses since the '08 recession, Cleveland is not one of those. There's a very low probability that the Cleveland MSA is not going to break even by the next census. There's no data indicating Cleveland is an economic turnaround that will vault it past other metros and make the area more attractive. The city will probably lose 15-20k or between 2010-2020. Looking at the MSA data it looks like the city of Cleveland probably lost another 2k last year alone.

My uncle lived off of Victoria Park near the Toronto/Scarborough line. You could walk down to the end of his street and you were on a beach that everyone used. It was amazing and reminded me how far Cleveland has to go. But lake access days are coming to an end. my great-aunt lived in the Beaches section on the east side (up from Queen St.) and I remember walking to Kew Beach (with its boardwalk) in the summer in the 60's. I think that whole area is all gentrified now and super-expensive. At least developers can't touch the waterfront there due to the public beach, right?? I hope. Samll world EastVillage, my uncle lived right off of Queen about 15 houses from that boardwalk during the 70s and 80s before before he moved up to a place on Danforth. The neighborhoods are still there but who know for how long! that's funny. My aunt was on Kenilworth near the corner of Norway, if you know where that is. Later (in the early 70's) she moved way up to the more suburban area of North York on Sheppard Ave. I can't even imagine how expensive those homes are now (easily in the several hundred thousand range, I would think, in both of those neighborhoods), but they were very modest. I remember once in the 5th grade I was staying there and started walking around by myself and got lost and I think I ended up on Danforth (maybe it was Dundas. I can't remember where everything is) or some major street further north. Not being accustomed to a big city, my aunt was worried when I was gone so long and pissed when I finally found my way back. I'm sure she thought I had been abducted, despite Toronto's reputation for being super-safe (especially so back in those days). My chances of being a victim of a crime were probably greater in Painesville! (probably still are-lol) A handful blocks away on Wineva. You were probably on Danforth, it's just a few major streets up from Queen. Wow, that really is something! I agree about the modest housing. Queen St. East and the Beaches neighborhoods are amazing, so full of life even back in ye ancient late 20th century. I'm sure they still are. I hope they don't build condos there.

My uncle lived off of Victoria Park near the Toronto/Scarborough line. You could walk down to the end of his street and you were on a beach that everyone used. It was amazing and reminded me how far Cleveland has to go. But lake access days are coming to an end. my great-aunt lived in the Beaches section on the east side (up from Queen St.) and I remember walking to Kew Beach (with its boardwalk) in the summer in the 60's. I think that whole area is all gentrified now and super-expensive. At least developers can't touch the waterfront there due to the public beach, right?? I hope. Small world EastVillage! My uncle lived right off of Queen about 15 houses from that boardwalk during the 70s and 80s before before he moved up to a place on Danforth. The neighborhoods are still there but who knows for how long!

No, it's OK, I'm not snippy. No worries. ;)

I was pretty clear. There are increasing examples of this. The waterfront is public, but getting to the waterfront increasingly is getting cut-off by private developers, especially as you go past the yacht clubs heading west from downtown Toronto.

Yeah, I go up there almost every summer and the lake access is awesome. No development cuts it off for miles around the center(re) city. All of the towers downtown are further inland. Two Points: -- Queen's Quay has been specifically redeveloped over the last five years to move condos along lakefront downtown and now they are moving in that direction. The only reason there hasn't been more lakefront development is the Gardiner and the rails. As Ken is showing, that's changing now. Also at some points, that lakefront "access" is single boardwalk around developments. There was a time prior to the condo boom when the City of Toronto wanted to link all the lakefront parks which are still scattered all over the place. That's never going to happen now. It's an opportunity permanently lost that could have transformed Toronto to match the standard barer of the Great Lakes access: Chicago. I like Toronto in many, many ways but they dropped the ball on this. -- In West Toronto neighborhoods and Etobicoke, wherever Lake Shore Blvd. approaches the lake there are new condos going up or planned. If you're coming perpendicular from the lake, those properties are forming an effective barrier to Lake Ontario. The only reason Scarborough hasn't developed their part of the lake is because there are many bluffs on that part of the shoreline. What was cool about Toronto was that you could have a dense neighborhood of townhomes or clustered single family homes with easy walkable access to the lake. That is changing. You can cut down a side street but not through a condo property.

Roar? Never noticed it. Ha, ha. Probably my bias, aviation geek always notices airplane noise.

The Lake Ontario shoreline extends far beyond downtown and there are multiple lake access points in Toronto. Many condos are being built along the lake with the promise of private access. Much like Miami. Bit by bit the lake area is being cut-off.

I agree Ken. Then the magic is killed when you hear the roar of the DH8 taking off. People in Cleveland complain about lightly used Burke but people in Toronto are spending thousands of dollars a month to have views of an island housing a busy albeit small airport. And Porter desperately wants to expand there even though they were cut off at the knees recently.

Montreal is rough place in January. You have to like snow, cold and dark. It's Mole City in the winter and half the population leaves for Florida or the Caribbean. Almost every building in downtown is connected by underground. I believe the city has the largest collection of urban tunnels on the planet. I'm have a bias too, I love Montreal. It just blows the doors off of other Canadian cities despite being mostly condo free. Wild immigrant mix on top of the Frenglish people. Rude and friendly and no city like it in North America. I get the fascination with Toronto but it just doesn't feel urban in some ways. There isn't a ton of access to the river but that's not my point. Montreal has natural and cultural areas that aren't comparable to Toronto before the condo boom. The lake is one of the few areas where there is beauty and it's being cut off. It's never a good thing for any city.

I remember what the plans were for the downtown waterfront back before the condo boom. The plans were for a Chicago style waterfront with lots of public access. Some of it was built, most of it wasn't. Then those plans disappeared and then the condos started popping up. Now, while there is still a fair amount access to Lake Ontario (more than Cleveland to Lake Erie), it's is decreasing not increasing which I don't feel is a good thing. Honestly, there isn't a lot of natural beauty in the GTA. Locals like to tout the Don "Valley" but it is kind of a joke. Take Montreal. Mont Royal is an incredible park right in the center of the city. Then there is the amazing old "Ville" by the St. Lawrence waterfront. There's nothing in Toronto that can remotely touch this. In fact, the condos make it feel like it's moving in the other direction. You drive on the Gardiner and bit by bit the lake is being blocked by similar style buildings. My uncle lived off of Victoria Park near the Toronto/Scarborough line. You could walk down to the end of his street and you were on a beach that everyone used. It was amazing and reminded me how far Cleveland has to go. But lake access days are coming to an end.

PDX = Portland, Or. I don't believe Cleve-Portland was ever flown by a regular carrier until United did it three summers ago. I think it's a sign the UA flight did well for Frontier to decide to take a stab at this.

Please...God...no more retail in Greater Parma! It's not like the nearby Midtown Shopping Center is overflowing with tenants. And never mind the example used in the Seven Hills slideshow is Crocker Park, this won't be Crocker Park. It all makes sense because there are more than seven hills in Seven Hills!

Confirmed. I'm not sure that this includes the E105th portion, but definitely the 'new constitution' portion. How will that work? Will SR 10 follow I-90 east to I-490 from the Lorain Ave. exit?

That's a big hit for a city like Lakewood. I usually love this sort of news, but this does more damage to an important inner ring suburb than it does to help downtown. I don't get it. Are you saying if this were Parma or Euclid, then it would be OK? The office market for the region is still weak, it's good the CBD fills more space. I'm thinking more like Beachwood or Independence. Either way poaching is poaching and results in zero net gain for the region as a whole. So it's better to have businesses in the 'burbs if it's zero net gain?

That's a big hit for a city like Lakewood. I usually love this sort of news, but this does more damage to an important inner ring suburb than it does to help downtown. I don't get it. Are you saying if this were Parma or Euclid, then it would be OK? The office market for the region is still weak, it's good the CBD fills more space.

Right, I was just making a comparison on US metro size. But just to be clear, it's the world leader in residential construction but there are a lot of cities blowing Toronto away on the commercial side. Which makes sense and isn't a knock on the GTA.

It's impressive for a metro that is around DC/Boston size, no doubt.

That's a fair point. Also, Mumbai (and all Indian cities for that matter) are clogged with people. Mumbai makes New York or Tokyo feel like Omaha even without the high-rises. And to be fair too, Dubai, Mumbai, New York and several East Asian cities are building much taller new buildings, challenging the tallest in the world. Toronto's tallest structure outside of the CN Tower, First Canadian, won't even be a world Top-50 tallest building in two years and I don't believe there is anything in the pipeline in Toronto to be taller. (Correcting myself, I saw that there are about 5 planned towers that will be taller than First Canadian but nothing being constructed yet).

It has more than 118: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Mumbai According to this list there are 117 under construction or in the pipeline and the cut off is at 130m. I've been to Mumbai. It's certainly feels like a bigger boom than Toronto. That being said, Mumbai is a mega-city. Toronto is impressive because it is so "small".

I'm pretty sure Mumbai has more going up and planned. Also, many cities on the Arabian peninsula are still having high-rise construction booms. What's interesting about Toronto is how much of the construction is residential. Toronto's tallest office building, First Canadian Place, was built in '75! And even though Toronto is finally beginning to erect some new office space downtown the numbers aren't that impressive compared to it's residential high-rise explosion. The Toronto market has 6 million sq. ft. of new office space going up after virtually nothing new was built since the early 90s. DC has 7.4 million sq. ft. going up after having two waves of office construction since the early 90s. My uncle lived in the City of Toronto for 30 years before moving to Guelph. I love Toronto but the condos are killing some of its charm. There's a sameness that wasn't there prior to the condo boom.

You look at the ACS stats and the lack of action from city leaders and you can understand why Greater Cleveland is expanding at slower pace compared to a lot of other US metros. It's frustrating.

I think the national housing bubble of 2008 and the localized Portland housing crunch are distinct issues. The 2008 bubble was caused by a lot of things but chief among them was extremely accessible credit to almost everyone. This pushed demand for housing beyond sustainable levels leading to the crash. Housing supply was being added at an incredible clip to keep up and housing construction activity reflected. This was a classic economic bubble, almost down to a textbook example. Portland's rising housing prices however are a product of restricted supply. The supply of housing in Portland and other similar growth metros (San Fran being the worst) just can't keep up with the demand to live in it, mostly due to restrictions on new development. But to my knowledge, credit requirements aren't being relaxed across the board and the rise in prices aren't a true "bubble" like 2008. Instead, its a fixed or extremely slow growing supply with lots of demand, generally. We certainly are in bubble, but not in a credit bubble. Prices are becoming too high for most Americans to afford a home in many markets. This demand is being filled in by people investing from abroad. I think a saving grace for Cleveland and most Midwest markets is that housing is very affordable. It may take a few decades to play out but the oversupply of new luxury apartments and condos along with unaffordable housing along the coasts will drive people back to the Midwest much like air conditioning drove people to the Sunbelt. Of course, I could be wrong, we'll see. Portland has supply issues due to geography but the national average was up 6%. A lot of cities have areas to build affordable housing but there's no demand to do so until prices compared to wages get back to more sane levels, like they were in, say, the early 1990s. It won't get there until people move back to places that are affordable. Two recessions away? Who knows?

There's the balance! I was never unbalanced. Chill and check out all my posts. :)

http://www.clevelandairport.com/company/history Hopkins saw a 13.2% total pax increase y-o-y in January. It's very early but Hopkins is on pace top 9 million pax this year already. Those are strong numbers with no connection passengers and no real international destination, not mention competition from Canton-Akron. Got to believe this will translate to additional service sooner than later.