Old AmrapinVA

And the idea of the team moving during that era wasn't that far-fetched, either. They were very close to becoming the Tampa Bay Indians.

100% correct. Dolans aren't going to bail even if 3/4 of NE Ohio has seemed to bail on them.

Winning dosen't generate excitement? I know the Tribe hasn't won a WS in the last decade but the team hasn't exactly been the Royals or the Pirates since Dolan took over. Some Clevelanders must have gotten spoiled with the Jacobs/Hart run. A season where the Indians contended until Labor Day followed by an 17-12 first place start the next season would have been considered incredible in the 1970's - early 1990's. Also these players deserve better support considering how everyone shows up to watch the Phil Dawson Show on the other side of downtown.

Same here. Already planning a few summer trips to see the Tribe at home. That's why I'm so freakin' upset about people not going.

Terrible comparison. If the indians played 8 games per year at home, you can guarantee they would be sold out. 81 games. 81!! Tens of thousands of people arent worried about missing tonights game, because they know they can go 40 more times this summer. If you miss a Browns game, you basically miss 1/8 of the season. Plus, completely different crowds. half the browns audience goes to act like its st. patricks day. So Cleveland is too small a market for 81 home games? Every other MLB city dosen't seem to have this problem. The attendance is horrific compared to the rest of the MLB.

Anyone think the casino opening will help attendance tonight?

Browns make the playoffs once in 10 years and people still fill up that stadium to watch that awful mess. Hell the Indians went 80-82 last year. When was the last time the Browns were better than 8-8? Embarassing. It's one of the best places to watch baseball. Cleveland deserves the barbs on this one.

^^In fairness, Cleveland's CSA/MSA was losing population according to estimates in the early/mid 1990's but then had a net population gain in both by the 2000 census. Of course 2010 was worse than the estimates for most Ohio metros. What you are pointing out is important but I'm just reflecting on what estimates are: estimates.

Surprised you guys missed this considering all the data mining on here lately. Lake County saw an average year-over-year weekly wage increase of 17.1% ($123). That increase now makes it the fourth highest average wage earning county in Ohio behind Hamilton, Franklin and Cuyahoga. Santa Clara County, Calif. was second with an 11.7% increase. National average was 5.3%. Mahoning County saw an 8.6% increase which was 13th highest in the nation. Lorain County saw an 8.3% increase which was 16th highest in the nation. Five of Ohio's 11 large counties saw below national average wage increases: Butler, Franklin, Hamilton, Lucas and Montgomery. Comparisons are made only for the largest 323 counties in the nation. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cewqtr.nr0.htm

I wouldn't get too excited over estimates.

Redskins were already $40 mil under the cap and they can split the total amount over 2 years. If they did that evenly they'd still have $3 million more than what the Browns currently have for FAs. Also, both teams have indicated they're going to ignore the penalties and fight it.

There's Tysons and Tysons II (Galleria). Where's the third mall?

The first-place team in the Horizon hosts the tournament? There is no fixed spot?

Seeing all the outbound traffic from downtown DC back up in front of my place. A single stop sign had traffic bottled up 3/4 of a mile about 3 hours after the attacks. Watching "debris" from the WTC only to realize that it was actually people. Looking up and seeing fighter jet after fighter jet that afternoon. Not a commercial plane in the sky even though I lived under National's approach path. You never really notice the drone of aircraft if you live near an airport until it's gone. My wife worked 3 blocks from the White House and thinking she was dead if a plane struck there. I called my wife from a pay phone twice that day: At 10 am I had no issues, at 4 pm the line was 30 deep. All cell service was out. Working at Dulles Airport two days after the attack. The silence of the place is almost unexplainable. Atlantic Coast repositioned a Jetstream 41 and when the props got going it sounded like a 747. The smoke from the Pentagon rising for weeks. The beauty of that day. The DC area had just broken a heat wave and there were pretty violent thunderstorms the night before. The sky was so blue that entire week. As said before, the flags. I'll never forget that day, the fear and confusion. It's not something you can easily move on from.

The Cleveland MSA had about a 1.4% increase in total jobs year-over-year in June. The Akron MSA had about a 3.0% increase. About 23,000 jobs have been added to the Cleveland-Akron area. There has been real growth over the last year, it's not an illusion.

That's part of it. The other part is that the land is higher the farther inland you get, where more snow falls. It's called orographic lifting, meaning that as air rises, it is cooled and condenses the moisture into precipitation. The area east of Cleveland is the start of the Allegheny plateau. Back to construction discussion....... Very true. In fact lift is probably the biggest factor in terms of snowfall. The Brunswick area has a mini-snow belt of its own due to elevation.

Ohio is far from leaking jobs. In fact Ohio had the third highest amount of total jobs created over the last year (June 2010-June 2011) trailing Texas and California. Between May and June of this year Ohio was up about 10000 jobs. The rise in the unemployment rate is a separate issue. Poor reporting by the Dispatch on this one. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm FYI, read the down the release a bit and see table D.

Good as I stated in the Portland thread, if these flight had O&D to support these flights, there wouldn't be a subsidy. With Delta always protecting its fortress hub in ATL and now building up in NYC, the PIT flight was all about money. Once you arrive in PIT, there was no connecting service and PIT doesn't have what it takes to be a "destination" or "gateway" for those coming into the States. PIT was a spoke for AF/KLM's CDG hub. DL was feeding a SkyTeam partner and generating connection traffic in Europe. Yeah but it was only one way, correct? Delta didn't increase services to/from it's hubs to PIT to help with connecting traffic arriving in the States. This was all about $$$$ I agree. DL's secondary issue had to do with CDG feed but it was an argument they used, beyond the subsidy, to operate the flight. Now that the flight has to stand on its own they chopped it back pretty far. Tells you that there wasn't that much feed at all, especially in the winter. I still think it stands a chance of not operating.

Good as I stated in the Portland thread, if these flight had O&D to support these flights, there wouldn't be a subsidy. With Delta always protecting its fortress hub in ATL and now building up in NYC, the PIT flight was all about money. Once you arrive in PIT, there was no connecting service and PIT doesn't have what it takes to be a "destination" or "gateway" for those coming into the States. PIT was a spoke for AF/KLM's CDG hub. DL was feeding a SkyTeam partner and generating connection traffic in Europe.

Delta says 4x weekly starting in late-March 2012. I still have doubts it will operate at all. We'll see.

Because the LA area needs a third NBA franchise. That's not a shot at you, Johio. Just pointing out how ridiculous it would be for the Kings to move there. Love to see them come back here as the Royals or to Seattle, though. If the Kings move to Anaheim, I think it will not be long before the Clippers organization start grumbling about leaving LA. I can't see how sharing Staples with the Lakers is a good thing for them with a third team in the area.

What does the Seattle to OKC move speak volumes about? The NFL is making money hand-over-fist and hasn't had a LA franchise for two decades. LA has somehow survived too. :)

Hmmm....I think real stats over opinions sums it up better.... http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wa.htm http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm Explain to me how where you live is "greener"? Most native Ohioans don't delude ourselves. Good for us.

On a side note: Is Windy working for the Post or ESPN? I thought the piece was a "special" for the Post.

MTS, I agreed about his last sentence about the way Cleveland will be treated if the Heat win. Of course you should complain, if you have the time, if something is in error. That being said, when I've had issues with the Post recently they've taken a very disturbing and ESPN-like stance: As long as you read it, who cares if it's "technically" correct. It's all about the eyeballs. I can see how it could be very discouraging to fight the Cleveland fight.