Old AmrapinVA

It's a functionalist/hi-tech big box! I'm sorry, that's too funny. I've always contended it's a Swedish Wal-Mart. We've got three here in DC/Baltimore, all in out in the outer burbs where there is not real transportation options except driving and are next to shopping malls or gigantic strip centers. Hell the IKEA at Potomac Mills is next to a Wal-Mart. I don't get the love affair or the justifications that this company gets over others. If they all closed tomorrow, it wouldn't be a big loss to anyone inside the Beltway who dosen't drive.

Freakin' awesome threads. Northwest Orient!?! Where's People's Express! Braniff! These pics, along with Ink's roaming moves around the state, are hands down the best pics threads on here. And MTS is right, overall downtown is leaps and bounds better today than it was 25 years ago. Barney, weren't most of these pics in the "Cleveland: You've gotta be tough" T-shirt era? Or was that earlier? Feels very early 80's, maybe just after the Kardiac Kids, or around the summer of the All-Star game. This pic is newer though, I see the USA Today box on the corner.

Evil suburban Parma lurks on the other side of those high-tension power lines. :) I used to wander through that area all the time. I used to call it Parma-lite to my friends who lived there, much to their dismay. :D

The plan is the new CC would mean the current IX would be obsolete. I know there were plans to close it permanently, yet I cannot remember the (approximate) closure date. Since the current management of the IX will not be running the NEW CC, who knows what that will mean. I see many of the current EXPO's moving downtown to a new center closer taking advantage of a more central location and spin off restaurants, entertainment. Well if the I-X center is abandoned once the new CC/MM is built, and along with the Ford casting plant in Brook Park probably ceasing ops around 2010, the entire area around the airport could reworked rather dramatically over the next 10 years. The I-X property could be used to build, say, a new terminal, and the Ford property could be used to build a few quaility hotels near the airport as opposed to having them at I-71 and Bagley Rd. or on the north side I-480 near Grayton, where most are located now. A "mass" of nice properties in the area might also help to kill that "porno" zone on Brookpark between Engle and W. 150th. Could Cleveland and Brookpark work together in trying to improve the area? Or are they still mortal enemies? :) CAL is gonna continue to move forward with its CLE expansion as more international airlines try to feed into Newark and the -ZNY airspace, and Hopkins regional position may actually be the strongest since deregulation with the PIT hub gone and CVG and DTW on the brink of floudering due to NW's and DAL's. financial position. (Ironically, as recently as 5 years ago CLE was the easily the weakest player.) I just hope Ricky Smith and Cleveland/Brookpark take advantage of what's playing out.

That's interesting B7 isn't being used. My guess is that UAL's schedule is scattered enough at CLE it dosen't warrant using the gate. I also heard the A320's are being used to go to DEN again after it was all an RJ operation last winter.

Is the new Medical Mart/CC going to mean the end of the I-X center? And if so, could Cleveland use land to expand Hopkins for the long term? Or are the two CC's going to coexist like now? Just curious on people's thoughts.

Up until about 5 years ago there was daily CLE-CAK service on CAL. Talk about a commuter rail flight! :)

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080229/laf003.html?.v=101 Continental Airlines Begins New Nonstop Service From Cleveland to Greensboro, Omaha and Savannah :clap: Friday February 29, 11:00 am ET New flights are part of expansion plan for Cleveland hub CLEVELAND, Feb. 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) on Monday will begin new daily nonstop service from its Cleveland hub at Hopkins International Airport to three new cities -- Greensboro, N.C.; Omaha, Neb.; and Savannah, Ga. The new cities are part of Continental's expansion program underway at Cleveland that will add 12 new domestic nonstop destinations this year, in addition to previously announced new service to Paris, France. Other new destinations from Cleveland will include Birmingham, Ala., Charleston, S.C., Green Bay, Wis., Tulsa, Okla., Little Rock, Ark., Memphis, Tenn., Lansing, Mich., Des Moines, Iowa and Kalamazoo, Mich. "Continental is pleased to be able to expand the range of destinations from our Cleveland hub with these new flights to Greensboro, Omaha and Savannah," said Robbie Anderson, senior director, Cleveland. "We will continue to add additional nonstop destinations from Cleveland over the next few months, including Paris, which will be the second city in Europe with nonstop service from Cleveland." The new flights to Greensboro will depart Cleveland each day at 11:45 a.m., and 7:30 p.m. Flights from Greensboro to Cleveland will depart at 6:41 a.m. and 2:15 p.m. A third round trip flight will be added on April 6, 2008. The daily flights to Omaha will depart Cleveland each day at 9:20 a.m. and 8:50 p.m. The flights from Omaha to Cleveland will depart at 7:35 a.m. and 11:35 a.m. A third daily flight will be added on May 4, 2008. The flight to Savannah will depart Cleveland at 11:30 a.m., with the return flight departing Savannah at 2:00 p.m. A second round trip flight will be added on April 7, 2008. Flights will be operated by 50-seat Continental Express regional jets. These jets come with individual reading lamps, individual air conditioning outlets, a full-size lavatory, storage for carry-on luggage and a wardrobe closet. Continental Express passengers receive efficient service and comfortable leather seating, along with advance seat assignments and OnePass frequent flyer miles that can be redeemed on Continental and partner airlines. Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 2,900 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 144 domestic and 139 international destinations. More than 550 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With more than 45,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 69 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture. For the fourth consecutive year, FORTUNE magazine named Continental the No. 1 World's Most Admired Airline on its 2007 list of World's Most Admired Companies. Continental was also named the No. 1 airline on the publication's 2007 America's Most Admired airline industry list. Additionally, Continental again won major awards at the OAG Airline of the Year Awards including "Best Airline Based in North America" for the fourth year in a row, and "Best Executive/Business Class" for the fifth consecutive year. For more company information, visit continental.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: Continental Airlines

Actually, not too many people predicted the end of JetBlue in the first year. They had substantial funding, a novel idea with live TV in the seatbacks, and Jet A fuel was around $1.25/gal when they started. It also helps they weren't reserving a block of seats at $10 a pop to go from JFK-LGB. I don't know what you are saying about Southwest. Southwest has been around for a much longer time compared to other low-cost competitors, back into the days before deregulation..the late 60's I believe. It wasn't a low-cost carrier when it was started. It was principally a regional airline that served smaller Texas/Oklahoma cities into Dallas/Houston/San Antonio. That's why they have hearts on their planes...for Love field in Dallas, the originial commercial airport in Dallas. Corny, I know. Only in Texas. The other interesting rumor about Southwest is that its founders were the first to coin the term "the Texas Triangle" for their hubs. Somewhere along the line NBA "experts" got ahold of that ditty and worked it into the ground.

I kinda touched on this on the CVG thread. Once an airplane(s) is removed from a route and used for something else, it can take a very long time to restart that service again. You're assuming that Delta, Southwest, Midwest or whoever has the aircraft to immediately start service once SX fails. The odds are very low that will happen. When Independence folded at Dulles it took 22 months for IAD's total flight operation to reach levels seen before Independence. The kicker with Dulles is there's a lot more international service here now then there was 2 years ago. Without that international push, IAD's total operation is still lower than it was in the spring of '05. So my argument is not unfounded. Many people predicted the demise of Independence Air with pretty good accuracy. Same with JetBlue's growing pains. Analyists have been screaming for a Delta-NW merger for years. Fluid dosen't mean unpredicatable. That being said, it is what it is, a guess on my part. They don't release financial statements with any regularity. To me though, that's more of a bad sign than good.

Just ignore those remarks Walker. They work for airlines and have a vested interest in seeing new competition fail. I've flown three times now (even once for business), with a 4th coming up in a few months. I have zero complaints considering what I paid for the tickets. I hope they make it and am glad the city and local organizations are behind them...nothing ventured, nothing gained. Honestly, I work for an airline that wouldn't be affected by SkyBus in the least and I agree with CMH_Downtown: once SkyBus folds, and it will, CMH will have less total operations than when SkyBus began with little incentive for the other carriers to fill in the patches quickly. With less travel options for businesses, the Columbus economy in general suffers. The bad will outweigh the good in the long run. SkyBus has released one financial statement and not suprisingly it was a loss. If SkyBus was even sniffing break even, you'd see press releases touting a success story. It's been eerily quiet in the arena though. I think the folks at SkyBus are ambitious, but unless they get additional financing or oil prices collapse, they'll be gone by this time next year.

Look I wasn't putting down CVG in the least. I was just bringing up an inherent problem if Delta would move out. It used to be a strategic advantage to have little competition at your airport up to 9/11. An airline could charge high fares with O&D pax, and offer unique service that may not be operating at neighboring airports. But with most of the legacy carriers in financial trouble, having a carrier with a presense outside of the hub helps these days. Really helps. Even though SW has moved into places like PIT and STL, it has been a struggle at times to get fairly minor operations up and going. There's more than just will behind starting new ops. Primarily, you need the aircraft. Most airlines have long term plans in how to rotate and operate planes. There is always some flexibility within these plans, but it's very unlikely an airline would "reserve" 100+ aircraft that SW or Virgin America would use on existing flights eleswhere on the possibility that Delta would leave CVG. So this idea that a VA or SW would come in right after Delta leaves with lots of flights, is a suspect idea at best. If Delta goes, you'd see a definite downturn passenger flight operations for several years. As for international service, speaking bluntly, I agree with MTS, without the domestic ops to support international service, there's little chance of Virgin, Air France, British or Lufthansa coming to CVG without the Delta hub. To put it another way, when CVG was one of the 20 largest US international airports in terms of total pax, it didn't attract an outside international carrier except for Air France who was there due to the code sharing agreement between itself and Delta. If Delta leaves, it's likely to fall out of the top 50. It would seem counterintuitive to start new international service with fewer pax connecting through an airport. That being said, I like CVG. I wish CLE had the terminal ammenities that CVG already has. I've said as much on the Hopkins threads. So this is not a Cleveland vs. Cincy thing, as I've been tagged with in the past. Just honest observations on the situation. NRT -- Tokyo/Narita. The primary gateway into the Far East. The Asian reference just smelled like airline PR BS to me. Well, the merger seems like more BS to me raise legacy airline stock prices. I could very wrong, but I think the merger will not happen and CVG will be fine.

Say wha? China?!!!? They're getting better, and they may have some new equipment, but there are lots of hazards in Chinese airspace.

Jimmy that's the problem. If CVG were profitable as you say, why did DL cut 40% of the operation in favor, at the time, of lower fare flights from JFK and ATL. I don't necessarily think those super high fares = super high profitability. In fact, DL did the CVG cut to get out bankruptcy, and investors behind the DL bail out supported its plans. That tells me that CVG might have been marginally profitable and the future looked brighter at the other DL hubs. (I can't believe DL dosen't get a profit out of CVG with those outrageous fares...but who knows?) There are two fundemental problems with CVG at this point: 1. It's a fortress and if DL leaves the hole will be bigger than PIT's US Air or STL's TWA operation. As for Virgin America rushing in, I actually know folks at VA, they don't have the aircraft nor the intention to start a new major ops outside of their business plan for quite some time, and that plan does not include CVG. I'm not saying it won't happen down the road but it's more likely CVG would get SW service or maybe Jblu for starters. 2. Those fares, and DL's dominance, have chased away so many carriers, that even if DL tools down CVG's ops...no carrier is going to enter the market until they can have a route to themselves. To put it another way, CVG is so removed from other carriers agendas, that they don't really think about it anymore. That's not a great position to be in with Open Skies around the corner and the increased competition it will bring. Airports that are increasing their traffic are diversifying their portfolios, not locking into one carrier for the long term. Either way, CVG will survive with or without DL...but I highly doubt CVG-NRT is in the cards, at least in the short term.

^^ I gotta be honest with you all. The AP source that the Cincy Enquirer was quoting seemed a little strange to me. Delta's last action was to literally throw out 40% of it's CVG operation, but now all of a sudden there will be flights to Asia? Hunh? I smell a little "Independence Air cheerleading" to keep the pols grumbling to a murmur.

My question is: If Cincy is profitable, why did they reduce operations by roughly 40% and are now hinting at reducting operations even further if the NW-DL merger goes through? There's some sort of incentive driving DL away from CVG. I'm thinking something is not quite right with ComAir beyond the existing issues. There's no way that DL's CVG operation should be shrinking (with talk of further reductions, as well) when pax are being charged more than flyers in and out of ANC. I can see one reason why DL-NW would want more regional service through ATL and DTW as opposed to CVG. Those airports have current international operations that reach beyond the standard European fair of LGW, CDG and FRA. That's my best guess though. If CVG's DL or DL/NW merger operation shrinks much further....a low cost carrier will get in there and try to grow something. Knowing SW's track record, I believe they'd strike and pull a Philly type operation and see how far they can get. Of course if LCC does well at CVG, that just makes CVG less desirable for DL or whoever, becuase clearly, price gouging is keeping the CVG operation alive at this point. CVG's overall operation is coming to a major xroads in the next few years. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Akron-Canton Airport puts heat on Hopkins Sunday, November 11, 2007 Laura Johnston Plain Dealer Reporter Cleveland Hopkins International Airport must be feeling the heat. It negotiated an agreement with Clear Channel Outdoor to outlaw Akron-Canton Airport billboards within a mile of Hopkins airport. It launched a new logo and ad campaign about a year after Akron's catchy punching-bag clown commercials took off. And in September, Continental Airlines President Jeff Smisek -- in a serious threat passed off as a funny comment -- told business leaders to fly from the airline's Hopkins hub, warning, "Don't drive to Akron-Canton!" Why? Hopkins officials won't talk about it, but the little airport is making big inroads. Akron-Canton Airport has celebrated five record-breaking years of growth since 2001, with passenger traffic increasing from 789,607 in 2000 to 1.4 million in 2006, an 82 percent increase. That made it the second-fastest-growing airport in the country for that period, behind Long Beach, Calif. Full story at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1194773870298180.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

This was posted on airliners.net yesterday: The poster received the following email in response to his query about booking a CLE-CDG trip next year. Dear Sir Thank you for contacting Continental Airlines. We have decided not to operate the nonstop flight to Paris next year. Continental is constantly monitoring our routes and schedules to provide the best service for our passengers. Your comments will be shared with the appropriate departments and our Senior Management. We appreciate you taking the time to let us know how we can better serve you. Regards, Darryl Johnson Continental Airlines This obviously isn't official news from CAL, just a response from an e-mail inquiry from a traveller looking to book the flight. I had sinking feeling that this flight had serious "bubble" status due to the two-year gap between announcement and actual operation. I just hope this posted letter was BS. Also, for those of ya thinking Cleveland-London Gatwick is year round again, it's not. It'll shut down this winter again.

Seeing how the thread was started from someone in Pittsburgh, I have no clue why your subtle insecurities are showing up in this thread as this isn't about "my city has ___" but is just a list. When did a small town in north-central PA become Pittsburgh? I'm done...you wanna turn me into the "versus" guy go ahead. I've said I'll I'm gonna say for now in my other post.

A little touchy are we?? This thread wasn't even posted by a Cincinnatian. It was simply posted to see where the major Ohio cities stand in this particular ranking. If you don't want to believe it then fine, but in no way shape or form has this thread been presented in an ego-boosting manner for any city. Not to mention...this is for income growth NOT per-capita income. Cincy does not trail Cleveland in growth...whether it trails Cleveland in the other category is another discussion. Just remember...it does not always have to be a Cleveland v. Cincy thing, this is for the entire state here. Please don't forget about Toledo, Dayton, Akron, Ytown, and Cbus. I only see Cincy people in here...along with a guy who started this thread from St. Mary's City, PA. I'm not touchy. Read my thread again. I'm being honest. If Cleveland's poverty numbers are as high as the census says, and these figures are true....a majority of people in the Cleveland metro that don't live in the city make a fair more amount of money than people that live in "greater Cincinnatia". It's hard for me to ignore this. It's why the rankings on this don't really show anything, if anything they show how far all Ohio cities have to grow just to reach the National Average somewhere in the low 40's. I mean c'mon, Birmingham is #1, Chicago is #78...without looking at the figures who do you think has the higher per-capita even with growth? Or to put it another way, Pittsburgh is #19 in growth, but without the looking at per-capita figures, I'll bet not only is Pittsburgh behind the 3 C's....it's behind Akron as well. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not. So who cares if you have income GROWTH...if you are still laging behing the national average. Which EVERY city in Ohio is. But hey, have a party anyway, Cincy is #53. Sorry for being honest and wanting something better out of the state in general. Youngstown's $27,670 is utterly depressing.

What is this point of this thread? For Cincinnati people to pat themselves on the back for almost reaching Cleveland status? Great job, your per-capita income for you metro is almost as high as a metro who's center city has a poverty rate of 30% and has been tagged 'America's poorest city' for better or worse. Woo-hoo, what an achievement. It's funny how people are caught up in the rankings...and don't look at the actual figures themselves.

^^ Yeah, but your argument is the problem with the place. If the idea of South Campus Gateway is to gentrify the surrounding neighborhood, it starts to limit the amount of available housing for college students that were undergrad and pay their rent by doing things like delivering pizzas or working at some fast-food joint. Where do they go? Bethel Rd.? It's not like Columbus has great transportation options and Ohio State has enough parking spots to cater people that would be, quite honestly, forced to drive in that situation. Not every neighborhood should be catered to an upscale gay population, eateries for local sports athletes or creating an extension of one's d'town. There has to be some common sense in the matter. There was no common sense in creating this. The logic was: get the homeless people/poor people out and if we lose some college students that could afford to live in the area along the way so be it. In the process they've lost a fair amount of foot-traffic compared to times past, and turned High St. on its end.

The most memorable minor-league experiences I had was in '94 when Darryl Strawberry was in Columbus doing a stint from one of his...ahem...'rehab' assignments. The Columbus crowd chanted Darryl as well as any New York one. That guy never got a break, even in the minors.

Rocc, I don't think it's as negative as some may think. Here in the DC area....most schools, police and fire are run on a county level. There are a few hamlets that may take control of one aspect or another....but you don't have 45 police departments in one county or 40 school districts. As for the idea that a central government controlling a vast area means less representation or an idea of "big government" is a bit far fetched. We have county reps that represent certain districts that are held accountable for their actions, just like mayors of suburban 'cities'. Looking at the political corruption that has plagued Parma over the last 30 years or so, I'm all a 'regionalism' change there.

There is an 8-story Staybridge Suites in McLean, Va. It mostly houses workers dealing with the Federal Highway Administration and the CIA which are few miles away. It's a very nice place. Much nicer than say, your typical Residence Inn used for the same purposes. Very nice lobby and it has a few services beyond most mid-priced hotels. I know it's not a St. Regis...but I it's definitely on the upper scale of long stay business hotels. I think it's a very good sign, It shows that d'town Cleveland isn't nearly as 'comatose' as some people think.