Old AmrapinVA

Why are these numbers different/healthier that the BLS numbers posted a a week back? Cincy gained 24,000 jobs Cleveland gained 10,000 jobs C-bus gained 11,000 jobs Dayton gained 2,500 jobs Only Mansfield and Stubenville lost jobs.

1. Montgomery County, Maryland (Washington, D.C.) A mostly affluent stretch of communities northwest of D.C., it’s home to probably the leftiest ’burb anywhere (Takoma Park) and one of the very first New Urbanist communities (Kentlands). Montgomery County stands out as a national leader in preventing sprawl by preserving thousands of acres of farmland. It has also achieved impressive results on affordable housing by requiring developers to include 15 percent lower-income units in all major projects or subdivisions. Shaker Heights is way more progressive than Montgomery County. How is Montgomery County a national leader in preventing sprawl when Rockville - Clarksburg is sprawl central? The county's growth patterns are centered on an expressway (I-270). BTW, I-270 is up to 12 LANES wide. County leaders have used that 'rural reserve' as an excuse to cut down the forests of central and northern Montgomery Co. for low-rise office buildings and subdivison hell. Also, Takoma Park's history is more aligned with it's PG county neighbors like College Park...than say Potomac or even Bethesda. In terms of progessiveness and urbanism...Montgomery dosen't hold a candle to Shaker.

$10,001, three bits, and a Kellogg's Frosted Flakes coupon redeemable for 1/20 of a penny! It's MINE NOW!

Thanks for the info...wasn't a CVG put down...IAD has free gate space and the carriers are always dancing around.

CVG puts out stats...I think it's between 16-17 million pax moved now.

^^ Screw you. I bid $10,001. ;)

South Euclid's housing is the same as Parma north of Ridgewood Dr. Street grid built in the 20's, home building stopped in the 30's....housing boom (mostly bungalows) in the 40's and 50's. Cool pics. You may have convinced me to do an Amrap photo thread some day.

As sad as this sounds, aren't those improving numbers for Cleveland. Wasn't Cleveland the league leader in this stat at the beginning of the decade. Outside of Columbus, Dayton and Mansfield aren't these numbers improving?

I'm talking CSA. Boston's CSA is roughly 7.5 million; San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland is roughly 7.2 million. http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List6.txt I thought CSA's didn't count anymore. Didn't CincyZach and UncleRando go off about how Akron wasn't part of the Cleveland metro anymore so Cincy would be #1? My 2007 World Almanac lists everything as MSA's. Damn that census!! :)

Just an FYI on San Fran and Boston:: Boston 4.391 million San Fran 4.123 million Areas with 7+ mil: Chicago (9 mil), LA (12.3 mil), NYC (18.3 mil). That what the Census (now) says. :)

Funny you mention that, since *Continental* already does code shares with Amtrak from East Coast Cities (I believe Wilmington to New Haven) for flights out of its Newark hub. CAL also "codeshared" with a bus service from Newark to Allentown-Bethlehem PA back in the 90's. It may still be in effect now, I don't know. They're pretty creative in trying to get people to EWR.

^^ Sounds like there is some open gate space in CVG. Why? Delta's pulldown of service?

This is exactly why several American cities (certainly not the case with Columbus) have such a hard time staging a solid comeback, they've become quasi-suburban thereby stripping them of the many reasons one would live in a city in the first place. That's not to say there aren't people who will move in and try to get things changing (or just wait for others to do that, God bless them either way) but I'm sure there are not nearly as many that would rather move into an already vibrant city, which is what I think many more young Ohians do. It's either make a big investment in a shell of a city that might come around in several years or live in one which doesn't need revitalization. Regarding the former, the upside of our large cities is that they are coming back (looking to continue in that direction) step-by-step and one really appreciates the development in these cities whereas others take it for granted. Yet Columbus is the most auto-centric city in Ohio. Go figure. :) I think any city in Ohio can make the case of being the most "auto-centric." So make the case. :) Easy. You're in Ohio. Good point. :)

^^ I see someone took their a-hole pills today. ;)

This is exactly why several American cities (certainly not the case with Columbus) have such a hard time staging a solid comeback, they've become quasi-suburban thereby stripping them of the many reasons one would live in a city in the first place. That's not to say there aren't people who will move in and try to get things changing (or just wait for others to do that, God bless them either way) but I'm sure there are not nearly as many that would rather move into an already vibrant city, which is what I think many more young Ohians do. It's either make a big investment in a shell of a city that might come around in several years or live in one which doesn't need revitalization. Regarding the former, the upside of our large cities is that they are coming back (looking to continue in that direction) step-by-step and one really appreciates the development in these cities whereas others take it for granted. Yet Columbus is the most auto-centric city in Ohio. Go figure. :) I think any city in Ohio can make the case of being the most "auto-centric." So make the case. :)

This is exactly why several American cities (certainly not the case with Columbus) have such a hard time staging a solid comeback, they've become quasi-suburban thereby stripping them of the many reasons one would live in a city in the first place. That's not to say there aren't people who will move in and try to get things changing (or just wait for others to do that, God bless them either way) but I'm sure there are not nearly as many that would rather move into an already vibrant city, which is what I think many more young Ohians do. It's either make a big investment in a shell of a city that might come around in several years or live in one which doesn't need revitalization. Regarding the former, the upside of our large cities is that they are coming back (looking to continue in that direction) step-by-step and one really appreciates the development in these cities whereas others take it for granted. Yet Columbus is the most auto-centric city in Ohio. Go figure. :)

This nation's immigration policy is the #1 factor as to why the US is growing faster vs. European nations. I doubt you will find any statistical expert on the subject that would argue any other case. Not that suburbanization isn't a factor, but immigration outweighs it by so much it gets 'sidenoted' for the most part. European countries have been extremely restrictive on who lives in their nations. Countries that have a larger open door policy, such as France with their North African neighbors, are now working to close those doors. There are alot of things I like about Europe, but their xenophobia of all people different living there isn't one. :)

It's mostly because the Census Bureau uses an annual survey to measure poverty, and it only samples about 100,000 households nationwide. The survey asks questions about household income, and compares responses to a grid of poverty thresholds that depend on age and household size, although there's no correction for cost of living. The provided statistical error (2.2% for Cle.) places Cleveland among any of the top three, and when cost of living is taken into account, the rankings would probably shift even more. Since we don't know how big the sample was, that could change things too. The important thing to remember is that the rankings by themselves are fairly meaningless. Yes, Cleveland has a big poverty problem, as do many other cities, but from a statistical point of view, it's nearly impossible to quantify it in such absolute terms. The fact that Cleveland went from 1 to 12 to 1 again proves it. Here's the 2005 poverty report from the Census Bureau (the relevant info is on page 24.) http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/acs-02.pdf It dosent matter how many households are measured...it matters how accurate the data is. To be able to take a small nationwide cohort and then come within 2.2 percent of an accurate number, that's pretty wild stuff. As for the adjustment of COLI...Cleveland is not as low as I think some believe. Energy costs keep Cleveland off the low end of the COLI list. Look guys, if we ignore and or dismiss the signs, the city will flounder no matter how many condo's are built downtown. There is a very large poverty problem in Cleveland that is not being addressed by City Hall. There is no real desire for companies to move back into the city, again not being addressed. City council can sing "kumbaya" for all I care, but they're not getting much done.

Merry Christmas to you, f'er. ;)

There are some promising trends for all three C's though. Forbes predicts the real estate market will rebound rater dramatically for most of Ohio's metros which can lead to better times/job creation. In fact Forbes predicted Youngstown as the number one price growth area in the Midwest for '07. (18th nationally). The three C's all ranked in the Top 10 in the Midwest and Top 40 nationally. Roughly 3 percent to 4 percent housing price increases for '07 and '08.

Yeah but even if you argue 1/12/1 thats a three year average ranking of 4.67. I don't think you could find a three year average where Cleveland ranked that high. The overall trend is getting worse not better. And you can't deny that with a poverty rate of 33 percent the city is doing a good job of turning it's fortunes around. The figures I got were from the census. Cleveland lost 28,000 people between 1990 and 2000. The estimate for 2000-2005 is a 21,000 population loss which means if this trend continues 42,000 by 2010. Granted the census estimate could be really far off. Look at the revised Cincy numbers. And the silver lining is in d'town area. That's why it's a D not an F. The city has done a good job of getting residental projects off the ground. There's no reason that C-land's d'town population won't be 12K or more, especially if Stark's project gets rolling. Yeah, I'm not saying that the city doesn't have a poverty problem, all I'm saying is that the rankings they put out don't mean a whole lot. The same thing goes with the Census estimates- the revised 2005 estimate for Boston gave it 7,000 more people than it had in 2000, which is even more remarkable than Cincinnati's 31. I'm not going to believe any of the numbers they put out until they actually count people in 2010. You're right about the progress being made despite the poverty, especially downtown. I'd like to believe that projects around the city, especially on the West Side, are making a bigger impact than we think. That's one of my biggest gripes with the leadership in Cleveland and all across the state. We're never going to attract newcomers unless we do some heavy-duty cheerleading. A good place to start would be sending reps to college job fairs around the country, or maybe setting up offices in Europe or Asia to help bring businesses here. Fair enough...but the national impression of Cleveland is being built on those poverty numbers. Cleveland does have an high amount of poor people compared to our "sister" C's. Instead of waiting for census numbers, the city needs to do something outside of waiting for richer people to move downtown. It's amazing lack of action/vision on this issue (i.e lack of job creation, slow action on solving the foreclosure problem, etc.) is why it deserves the D it gets. As for the CBD office vacancy rates: http://www.buildingteamforecast.com/article/CA6401068.html?industryid=43721 As of 3Q 2006: Cleveland's CBD vacancy rate was 22.2 percent and stagnant Cleveland's suburban vacancy rate was 16.7 percent and stagnant Columbus's CBD vacancy rate was 18.4 percent and stagnant Columbus's suburban vacancy rate was 21.4 percent and stagnant Cincy's CBD vacancy rate was 16.9 percent and rising quickly Cincy's suburban vacancy rate was 18 percent and declining quickly All three cities rate an F in my mind. All three cities had vacancy rates higher than the national average. Only Cleveland's suburban vacancy rate was within a percentage point of the national average. Not CBD but suburbs, ugh. Cincy's trends, another ugh. At what point does this shit stop in our cities? Not any one of the 3 C's will see a major office development downtown with these numbers. Filling in the gaps with our downtowns will be residental building based for the near future. I agree about the statewide thing, but Ohio's govt. has never really had the "vision thing" if you know what I mean. :)

Yeah but even if you argue 1/12/1 thats a three year average ranking of 4.67. I don't think you could find a three year average where Cleveland ranked that high. The overall trend is getting worse not better. And you can't deny that with a poverty rate of 33 percent the city is doing a good job of turning it's fortunes around. The figures I got were from the census. Cleveland lost 28,000 people between 1990 and 2000. The estimate for 2000-2005 is a 21,000 population loss which means if this trend continues 42,000 by 2010. Granted the census estimate could be really far off. Look at the revised Cincy numbers. And the silver lining is in d'town area. That's why it's a D not an F. The city has done a good job of getting residental projects off the ground. There's no reason that C-land's d'town population won't be 12K or more, especially if Stark's project gets rolling. Amrap, thine name is Debbie. :)

Yeah, that was best part of the map. Maui looks to about in the area of Kyoto. Jesus, f'n hosers.

Cleveland is definitely in D territory. Poorest city in America (again). 1/3 of it's residents below the poverty line. Population loss at a faster rate than same period ten years ago. CBD office vacancy rate one of the highest in the country. The kicker is that suburban vacancy rates are actually LOWER than the national suburban average. Many business staying in town are opting for the 'burbs. The only reason it's not an F is that residential growth downtown is accelerating while the city's population as whole decreases. With many d'town projects nearing completion or being constructed in the near future, that trend will continue. But it's a definitely a diamond in the rough situation.

It's Parmatown circa 1995 after South Park was built. Thanks for the memories.