Old AmrapinVA

ColDayMan and others, Didn't know you guys were playing sounded serious to me. Mucho apologizo or something like that. :)

ColDayMan, Another exciting example of taking the high road. Bravo.

ColDayMan seriously, You started this then turn this around and say someone should be envious of you because of where you live! You are the OCD guy, running from Cleveland board to Cleveland board looking for some dumb-ass thing to say. If you want to be left alone in this regard, leave it alone. Seriously..it's UrbanOHIO...if some idiot wants to put up 11 I Love Cleveland threads, who cares? If someone wants to believe Cincy is the best city in Ohio and put it in his tag, who cares? But you do have some weird obssesion with people that are fond of Cleveland and NE Ohio. My question is why? Anyway, chill, son. I love Cleveland and the Warehouse District, Columbus and the Short North, Cincinnati and OTR, Toledo and the waterfront, Dayton and Wright AFB, Akron, home of LeBron, Canton and the Football Hall and Y'town and the Penguins...even Parma! Hell my friends are from all over the state and they're the funkiest people in country, I'd argue the world. :)

Wow....that's very scientific. Explains why NYC has a worse nightlife than Cincy. When using match.com does Dr. Phil get a say? :)

I'm from Parma...the laughing stock suburb of a former laughing stock city. I don't even know where to start.

That is pretty damn funny, and I'm from Cleveland. WTF, Clevelanders have always had a great sense of humor, just let it slide. You should hear the comments on the local news here when a home-run ball flies out of PNC park in old Pittsburgh. Especially since the rivers there are mostly shit-brown year round. You get the idea.

Much rather be Indylite than DetroitLite, thanks. More like a super-sized Charleston, W.Va. :) Before you start on me ColDayman, I understand your point, why try to be like NYC or Chicago when we should all aspire to be like Cincy and Columbus! The greatest cities in the Midwest...of course if you just completely ignore Chicago and Minneapolis. :-D I don't think Cleveland is like Charleston, WV; I think it's more like Weirton. You know, haphazard, dead, and decayed. But of course you should aspire to be like Columbus. You want to grow, don't you? What the hell is Weirton? Jesus, one thing I can say about C'Bus folks when I went to OSU...they were experts on everything W. Va. Aspire to be like Columbus? You mean annex property in order to maintain population growth? I'd rather aspire to be like Chicago which has population loss but still more people living in one dowtown city block than in the entire downtown of Columbus. I take that back...at the rate d'town Cleveland population is growing it'll be there by 2010. Relax son, Columbus and Cincy are the models for NYC, Honolulu and Osaka, Japan! I read that in Forbes. :)

I'm with Dan on this one. Seriously...I've been to Cincy and OTR and I've been to Manhattan. Cincy, while having a fine bar scene, is not even with the same league as Manhattan. Seems a little screwy to me. One of throw the dart on the wall and lets pick a new city to be #1. And yes if Cleveland, hell DC was ahead of NY, I'd say the same damn thing.

LMFAO, gets what rolls out today. Good call CMH. Courtesy of NewsNet5: Flying Out Of Hopkins Cheaper Than Other Midwest Cities POSTED: 1:37 pm EDT July 25, 2006 UPDATED: 1:41 pm EDT July 25, 2006 CLEVELAND -- According to a new study by the U.S. Department of Transportation, passengers flying out of Cleveland Hopkins International Airport are paying lower fares than those using other Midwest airports, including Cincinnati, Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh. The study compares what local airport customers pay for flights when compared to travelers at other airports with comparable demographics. Study: Hopkins fliers pay lowest fares in Midwest I've gotta go, I'm sure someone can drag up the study later.

^^ Fair enough CMH. CMH is in a similar situation too, all these low cost carriers expanding service into Columbus can't hurt, and it's proximity to Cincy is helping drive new pax there. DEN does get screwed quite a bit, as well. I just like to blow off a little steam at times. I really think Hopkins has better times coming in the foreseeable future. It's just so slow.

Parma Hts. > Parma > Columbus (OSU) > Washington, DC > Falls Church, VA > Annandale, VA > McLean, VA > back to Falls Church. ColDay forgot alot of the metros: Parma-Parma Hts.-Seven Hills metro, the Brook Park-Middleburg Hts. metro, the Strongsville-Brunswick-Medina metro, the Grafton-Valley City-Columbia Hills Metro, the Wadsworth-Seville metro, the Cuyahoga Hts.-Newburgh Hts metro. To many metros to count. :)

Those are beautiful plans. I especially like the new terminal with international gates....very BWI-esque. The current airport is way too small for a market of Columbus's size. I see there are eminent domain issues though, hopefully you wont get a couple people hell-bent on staying in there in order to max out the value of their property like what's happening with Cleveland's expansion. Maybe CAL will move to CMH in 10 years? Very nice, indeed.

Gund made a killing off the Cavs and he only owned them for 15-20 years. Likewise with Jacobs and the Indians. Get a shitty franchise, build a new arena/stadium, turn teams fortunes around, sell it at it's peak. You don't need 50 years to do that.

^^ I understand your point, but it's not like CLE planes currently fly out empty in any class. At last check CLE has something like 80 percent of it's planes filled, hell it's been seeing passenger increases over the past 2 years while CAL continues to decrease service and with CAK aggressively trying to 'steal' passengers from Hopkins. It's not like the first-class sections on flights going to EWR and IAH are empty. And if someone going to fly first on a 737 to EWR it's almost guarneteed they're flying first or at least business on a wide-body to Europe. And CLE has a fair amount of flights going to the other hubs in order help them out. The money is there. CVG has an advantage because a) they have better concourse/customs facilites than CLE b) they have Comair which they've shoved down Delta's throat in order to keep conncetion pax high and c) it's a wide-body airport. Delta seems to be changing it's tune over Comair now that they are knee-deep in debt...but it sure helps having a very large conncetion base to draw from for their three international flights to Europe. It will be interesting to see over the next 5 years whether CVG will be able to hold on to those flights with the decrease in service with Comair. Yes the Cincinnati metro has a stronger business base than Cleveland, but it's not like NYC vs. Omaha which is what Hopkins feels like vs. Cincy/N. Ky. I agree with the overhubbing of airports....but I really don't think CLE would make CAL bankrupt if they actually used the asset they have here. Alot of people like the airport because it's not the monstrosities that IAH and especially EWR are. But for some damn reason CAL is hell bent on getting people to wait in ground-stop delays in the New York area then have the plane leave on time from Cleveland. Hopefully an upgrade in concourse facilites will be a first step in getting CLE in line with the other airports. Alot of this is chicken and the egg stuff. If you don't provide service to CLE, why would a business want to move there. If a business dosen't want to move there, why provide service to CLE. This mentality the boys in Houston love to use has to end. Again, I don't put the blame entirely on CAL. The Port Authority screwed around with the airport too long. That dumb-ass Forbes and "We don't need United" schtick, White constantly pissing off CAL and scaring off Lufthansa, even Campbell and that "Pacific Rim" talk. The talk is nice, action is better. That's why I'm high on Smith...he's more than just talk...he did a good job with BWI. BTW, it's about damn time JetBlue flew to C'bus. I don't know what took so long. Hopefully CMH will get a LGB or OAK flight in the future.

Much rather be Indylite than DetroitLite, thanks. More like a super-sized Charleston, W.Va. :) Before you start on me ColDayman, I understand your point, why try to be like NYC or Chicago when we should all aspire to be like Cincy and Columbus! The greatest cities in the Midwest...of course if you just completely ignore Chicago and Minneapolis. :-D

Story is dated, but it just shows that Pittsburgh's demise seems to be Cleveland's gain. The West Virginia service, now Lancaster....can't wait for the non-stop to Latrobe. The Amish-to-Amish connection is about to begin. Airport lands a big offer By Patricia Poist, Staff Writer Published: Jul 16, 2006 12:00 AM EST LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - Continental puts in bid to fly out of Lancaster with bigger planes to Newark or Cleveland, or both. ----- A Continental Airlines contractor is vying to take over airline service at Lancaster Airport, which would give travelers here up to three times as many destination choices than they have now. And passengers would get to fly in larger, more comfortable aircraft and will still likely pay fares comparable to those at Harrisburg International Airport, said Lancaster Airport officials. Airport officials said Friday that Smyrna, Tenn.-based RegionsAir is competing with Air Midwest, the present carrier, to offer three daily Continental Connections flights, starting Oct. 1, at the Manheim Township airport. The company presented four options that involve three daily flights to Ohio’s Cleveland Hopkins International Airport or New Jersey’s Newark Liberty Airport or a combination of both. Airport officials are endorsing one of the options, in which one flight would go to Cleveland and the other two to Newark, which is a major international airport. Phoenix-based Air Midwest, the current carrier, has been offering service here since September 2004. That company contracts with U.S. Airways Express to offer three flights a day to and from Pittsburgh International Airport. Pittsburgh has limited flights and “does not give local travelers the connections necessary for success,’’ said Tom Baldrige, president of the Lancaster Chamber of Commerce & Industry. Baldrige is also the chairman of the six-year-old Lancaster Air Service Task Force, a group of business and community leaders whose aim is to grow the airport’s commercial air service. ___________________________________________________________________________ Contact Patricia Poist at [email protected].

I wonder if this has anything to with the Port Authority updating the website to include BKL. That the city is courting this kind of service out of there. Very forward thinking. The idea of tearing down BKL isn't a bad one, but you need have some sort of plan in place to rebuild the area almost immedately after closure. It would be terrible if the city abandoned BKL and then let it rot on the lakefront while everyone argues over what it should be. That being said, I'm on the minority side of this, I think it should stay open. It's unique and is actually a draw for business to move to the area.

I know what you are talking about Dan. It's not that....maybe I didn't notice back in the 90's because I was doing the Rush Hour thing with everyone else....but at the corners of Rosslyn...in both the upper and lower decks out where the concrete is by the tracks..and especially in the corners there's this green stuff forming..to be fair, I don't know if it's mold...but whatever it is, it's more than those stains and the area expanded over time. I saw a bit of it at the Pentagon too. You can feel the humidity in those stations, even in the winter. Makes me wonder if it is mold or some sort of moss.

Man if Charlotte is looking move again, it'll be 35 years before they put another NBA team in that town They're f'n up two franchises in 10 years. I don't have any problems with Cincy getting an NBA team...but if there was ever a sport (outside of hockey) that needs contraction...that would be the NBA. Just fold up Seattle and Charlotte and move New Orleans to Cincy. I can't believe Portland is going to lose their team.

I always hate to be the down on DC guy, but when I worked at National for a stint and rode the Metro back late a night...it was was usually filled with newspapers. There was trash all over the place. The stations are clean....but if you look at the underground ones...they seem to be getting mold at the base of the concrete, especially Rosslyn....I remember back in the 90's...the underground stations were not that bad. The SmartCards are OK...but God forbid you put them in your wallet or get it scuffed...they'll scramble and you have to waste $5 to get a new one. SmartCards also aren't available at all stations, so you can end up spending extra money on paper tickets. It's a good system by American standards, but when I go to Tokyo....damn, you see alot of ways all the American city transit systems could be improved.

CMH you are right about open skies and the slot allocation process at LHR. In fact you could argue it was one of the driving forces behind open skies. United, American and BA have a fortress hold on that place and the British govt. shows no signs of helping respond to the other airlines concens in that matter except to say 'Hey, we have LGW'. It's funny that CAL used the word 'marginal' in talking about how CLE-LGW is performing. Not 'bad','we're losing money on the route' or 'terrible', just marginal. That's a very vague word. Marginal can very well mean money-maker. That says alot about the route itself considering it's a 757 and it flies to Gatwick where airports up and down the East Coast fly 767's and 777's to Heathrow. Also it's not like Continental has invested money in making regional routes more successful at CLE. If CLE had more conx traffic...and it could if CAL would actually invest in a resonable timetable for CLE instead of using it as a conncetion base to IAH and EWR..you'd have more pax. Right now, someone from Indy is going to choose Detroit anyway...because DTW offers more flights to London than Cleveland. If something goes wrong on my flight from say IND-CLE and I miss my connection to LGW, I now have to fly to EWR to get there or spend the night in Cleveland. While in Detroit, I just get on the next flight. As for Dan and the population numbers...is it really that hard? 3 mill in the six county metro. Another half-mil live in Canton...another half-mil in the Y'town-Warren area. Now I have 4 mill. Mansfield, Sandusky, Norwalk...another 200,000. Throw in the rural counties south of Canton along with the Erie, Pa. area and you have close to 5 million if not 5 mil itself. All these folks live within an 1-1.5 hours of Cleveland Hopkins. This is not radical thinking. Anyway, I can't find the trade area numbers on the Census web-site, but Rand-McNally puts out a gigantic atlas sized book you kind find at most libraries that breakes down each cities 'marketing/trade' area using Census numbers...Cincy has 5 mill too, BTW and they have non-stops to LGW, CDG and FRA. Again, it's quite obvious to me Cleveland is getting screwed by CAL. It's good to see Mr. Smith talk about gaining service from those boys down in Houston, I just hope he wears thick boots with the amount of BS they'll throw his way on why they wont do it. Seattle should be a all-year round no-brainer. The Northern California route is interesting. I'm guessing San Jose since Oakland is low-cost airport and Sacramento seems a bit of a stretch. Even with CAL's usual blow-hard comments...I think things will get better at Hopkins for the forseeable future.

Dan...NE Ohio is more than the 6 county metro. There are close to 5 million people that live in NE Ohio: Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Y'town, Lorain-Elyria, Ashtabula, Mansfield, Wooster....and hell lets be honest...the Census includes the two NE Pa. counties Erie and Crawford(?) as part of the Cleveland "trade" area as well. The are 5 million people that are within a 1-1.5 hour drive of Hopkins. They're just spread out all over the place. Just like the DC-Balt trade area is like 9-9.5 million. I agree about the City of Cleveland thing. I said that a long time ago. There needs to be a push to get Cleveland out of running the airport. That being said....I don't know the finances of the airport. We assume because the city is running it, it's broke. Yet they have done capital improvements in the terminal...the parking garages...the bag basement...all over the past 5 years. I don't think Smith is gonna add a new terminal, just an gate/customs improvement to get the airport a bit up to speed. Thanks for your usual brand of optimism though!

^^ Yeah, but Cuyahoga mass exodus days were at their worst in the 70's. It's a trickle compared to those days. Not to many 'Rust Belt' cities are posting numbers like Cincy/Hamilton Co. lately outside of Detroit/Wayne Co. And since Cincy was not part of the Rust Belt problems of the 1970's and they weren't wacked as bad by the recession earlier this decade, I still wonder why such a massive move out of that area. Is it crime?

^^ Time will tell. But if the Nets become a 18 win team by just holding out on hopes and expanding their cap room on a Wade and LeBron move to Brooklyn, Jay-Z may be disappointed. They'll need to be competitve even if this is true. The Knicks shot themselves in the foot by being a bottom feeder the last 4 years. It's NY media trying to scare the other markets. I don't take much stock in it.

^^ I see your point...but that being said, I don't see how the Cleveland housing market is going to sour. The area around d'town and d'town itself has seen a slow and steady increase in availability of housing units downtown over the past 20 years and there has been a continuous demand for more. This isn't the office boom of the 80's....the housing stock has been increasing modestly...which each new project getting a little larger in size and scope. It'll be only a matter of time before Sharia and Wolstein realize they're missing out on something good and being to negoitiate something.