Old AmrapinVA

This idea that a national downturn in the economy can effect office space rental locally is a bit of stretch. When the economy went into a dive at the end of the 1980's....Cleveland was not the center of that recession. It was mostly New England. This last recession was centered on Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Detroit. It all depends on how the economy dives (if it does) to determine how Cleveland will shake out at the end of the decade.

Continental threatening to pull to London again. Continental could solve this problem by offering more domestic service to/from Cleveland. I don't think they're using the same excuse with IAH and EWR. I'm sure once they shelve CLE-LGW, lo and behold, EWR and IAH will add a flight or two there. But "open skies" is far from a bad thing. It'll be easier for a foreign carrier to bring in a CLE to London or Paris or whatever and in turn offer domestic service to places CAL refuses to give us. CAL is against it because they don't want the competion. They'd rather pull CLE-LGW in a couple of years after open skies fails and screw Clevelanders into flying to Newark then let someone with a better aircraft come in and offer service to Heathrow. NE Ohio has 5 million people and is WAY underserved by the boys down in Houston....you think the European carriers don't notice this? The Port Authority has blame in this as well...they need to upgrade the concourses to allow for a 767 to get into Hopkins. Again, that's why I think Ricky Smith is here. Cleveland has been getting kicked in the teeth too long by CAL and Mr. Smith will make it a priority to improve concourses and get some real competition to Europe going. If that means CAL has to go hub shopping...so be it. I'd rather have 20 carriers offering different ports of call...than have CAL continue to abuse this CLE "hub".

I'm not quite sure what your point was of the numbers but a little historical perspective might be needed to show that Cleveland, even with a regional loss, seems to be transitioning a bit better in redistributing it's population than Cincy is these days. Between 1970-1980 Cleveland lost 6 percent of it's population regionally. The city itself lost 25 percent of it's population during that period. Between 1980-1990 Cleveland lost 2 percent of it's population regionally. The city itself lost 12 percent of it's population during that period. Between 1990-2000 Cleveland gained 2 percent of it's population regionally. The city itself lost 7 percent of it's population during that period. Using the numbers above for '00-'05...Cleveland lost .5 percent of it's population regionally. The city itself lost 5 percent of it's population during that period. Cleveland still has alot of issues to work out....but the trends in Cincy are bit more disturbing. This idea that "we don't have regional loss so everything is OK" is how most Steel/Auto belt cities acted in the 50's and 60's. Cleveland's share of hurting the region has been steadily declining since the 70's up until the last 5 years and considering that NE Ohio was the epicenter of the early '00s recession, I think Cleveland's regional numbers will improve through the last 5 years of this decade and the rate of the city hurting the region will begin to abate again. Part of reversing this trend for Cleveland is all the downtown housing construction going on in places that were left to rot during the 60's and 70's. It was focused in only a few areas during the 80's and 90's but now has become more widespread and is affecting many areas of downtown. This is not a knock on Cincy, it's just surprising to me to see how fast people are moving out of Cincy and Hamiton Co. My question would be....what's going on in Cincy to create this mass exodus?

Parmatown of the early 1980's - Higbee's, May's, JC Penney's, the ciniplex...on the stripmall next to the mall you had Children's Palace (Kiddie City was in the PH). On Day Dr. you had..Best, Fazio's, Stop n' Shop. When I get back to Parma, I look down Day and Ames and go, WTF? Wal-Mart? Dick's Sporting Goods? South Park has just ripped the life out of Parmatown and turned it into another strip center.

Stop looking at the glass as half empty. Man, look at it this way. Cavs lose the finals next year, win the finals in '08 and '09...he hangs around for his option year does the three-peat..then moves on for endorsement money. With what I saw with the Cavs last year...anything is possible. Hughes and Z actually play to their potential...and they would've been in the EC finals. That's ridiculous for a team that won 17 of 82 in 02-03. Not like they should be ashamed of what happened last season. That was a great run. As for his move to NY, I think we are on year four of the media speculation on when LeBron will move east. It's funny how it's moved away from the Knicks to the Nets. The only way his deal would have been a 'crushing letdown' to me is if that deal would have been with another team.

I wouldn't sell Ohio that short. They are taking out the West Side Shoreway in Cleveland and making it a boulevard. It's a step in the right direction. Nothing in the DC area indicates they'll do anything with freeways like that around here. Except build new ones with tolls.

Yeah, I'm addicted to working in aviation. Which just irritates me that Ohio airports don't have more international service. I think CMH could have international service as well...they just need to get a larger domestic presence. I'm amazed that some major hasn't jumped on CMH. It's not a small market. I'm also amazed JetBlue hasn't started service there with CMH's limited competition. It's good to see LUV expanding service there, it's needed.

I see that Broadway exit would have been I-80N and ended up where I-490 is. Glad that was never built as well. It looks like it would have gone right over Calvary Cemetery.

I'm just glad they never built the Parma Freeway..the original location of I-71 (Medina Frwy.)... an interchange would have went right over my mom's house. After the Feds decided to move I-71 further west towards Hopkins, ODOT still had the Parma Frwy. on the books into the 80's...ending close to Ridge and Sprague. I think the long Denison Ave./W. 65th St. exit off of I-71 was the 'beginning' of that freeway that was never built. You have a similar exit for Broadway on I-480...I'm assuming that was a freeway that was never built as well. Parma is a bige enough mess without a freeway running through the center of it.

LeBron to me is the most entertaining sports figure in Cleveland as long as I've followed sports. He just makes an ass out of most of the "experts". Wizards in 6, Detroit in 5, Carmelo can make clutch shots, LeBron can't, etc. I'll give credit where credit is due, Stein on ESPN called this (who is no Cleveland pumper, BTW) and is gloating over the other bozos (basically the entire ESPN staff) who thought he'd want to start over with a team like the Knicks or Lakers just for more endorsement money. I never worried about his contract extention. LeBron has no intention of leaving until he gets Cleveland a championship and he will. It'll be a bigger story than anything he can create in NY or LA.

I think it's London then Frankfurt then Paris then Amsterdam. After that it starts getting a bit sketchy. If we ever do get these four flights out of CLE and they succeed...then I'd say take a stab at Tokyo/Narita. Then again a flight to San Diego or Portland, Ore. would be nice. I just wish CAL had more plans for CLE than Morgantown. :)

Mittal Steel USA HQ is in Chicago, not in Cleveland as it was with ISG. Most Mittal Cleveland employees would prob. travel to Chicago before Amsterdam. That would be nice if it was though. Hopefully, we can still get the AMS flight anyway. Oops, my bad...well If we get an AMS flight out of CLE maybe we can the headquarters here! :)

KJP you had mentioned the option of putting a Tech Center in the Welfare-to-Work mode. I think that's a good idea. Yet SYC will exactly be that in a way...it will open up opportunites to people that currently can't find employment now. And however meager it is...it provides an improvement in living standards for people in Cleveland. As for CostCo....if CostCo really gave a shit about this project...they would've signed on. Yet they seem to be focused on suburban areas of fast growing metros. They're basically trying to 'raise' the living standards of high school kids and immigrants that live in these areas. I'm no fan of CostCo until they take a view like a Home Depot...and are willing to take a few chances in not so pretty neighborhoods around the country.

Duly noted. Although the his transition to the NBA game might take a year. Let's hope Z and Hughes can get off their collective asses next year and bring their game up a little to compete with Chicago and Detroit.

But what's the average income of people in University Heights vs. someone who lives on Denison Ave./Jennings Rd. area? And lets not play up this land...this isn't some plot of land in Brecksville overlooking the Valley Park. Who would honestly live there?...Even low income folks can have better views and healthier living by being in the new Riverview properties on W. 25th. I think some of you folks wouldn't be happy unless Starbucks or Williams & Sonoma had an investment there. They pay the same crap wages as well.

I've heard the CLE-AMS service kicking around for a while. There's one hitch...since CO and NW codeshare and there are something like 16 flights between DTW and CLE and NW codeshares with KLM..I don't know if CAL would start the service. The one reason AMS would be the next international destination for CLE: Mittal Steel. BP America was the impetus behind London even if though they packed up and moved to Chicago. Maybe Cleveland/Mittal Steel could convince CAL to start some sort of seasonal service to the Netherlands. CAL has shown no real determination to make CLE anything but an domestic hub. They tried San Juan for a about a year and pulled it....cut London in half and threaten every year or so to pull it altogether...trimmed Cancun to just Saturdays. I'd start buying CAL's intentions more if they extended London back to year-round service. I still think Jackson's decision to bring Ricky Smith in is to do what he did at BWI. USAir treated it like a domestic hub...so Smith went out and got international carriers to do what American carriers wouldn't. Don't be surprised if we get Aer Lingus or Lufthansa soon to force Continental's hand. I say by 2008 after some A concourse upgrades. BTW, JetBlue started service to JFK-PIT service.

But again, what can you build on SYC besides big-box retail? Look at the location of the place. How many of you would be willing to live down by the Mittal Steel Mills if it had $200,000 condos? On one side you'd have a blast furnace on the other the overpass from hell. And as for the argument that big-box drives away mom-and-pop stores...a whole helluva alot of immigrants work at big box stores where I live. A fair amount of these folks get promoted, learn managerial skills and in turn dump the store to try a business on their own usually in the same city. Immigrants move to cities where there is employment...a blank piece of land wont get them a job. This brings jobs to the city, maybe not high-tech ones...but it's a start and honestly who wants a city half full of rich folks and the other half unemployed.

Just a piece of advise from a new guy on the board. I received a PM from DaninDC and lets just say I think he's a little upset about me questioning the greatness of DC. Anything that's starts with "You obviously can't read..." and calling me an idiot by the end tells me the 'debate' is over. You know my thoughts on SYC, but I'm steering clear of old Dan there. My humble advice is to do the same with him as well. You'll never win those types of folks. It's not worth the energy, when so many good things are happening in Cleveland he chooses to ignore.

I'm sorry dan....but you are calling out Cleveland for SYC when DC DID THE EXACT SAME THING on Brentwood Rd. NE and advertised it IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER. Public Services are improving, they're still not at the level Cleveland is now. Same with Parks and Rec. Do you remember the snowstorm of '94 and how it took DC TWO WEEKS to plow sidestreets? Or in '98 when garbage wasn't picked up for a week and a half couldn't pay it's employees? So yeah they're improving....but that isn't saying much. And you're living in DC and calling Cleveland out for liquor stores? That's half of DC's new businesses! Those blinders must be awfully strong.

Dan, why don't you take the same attitude with the DC Public Schools system or DC Public Works, both pretty much a joke inside and outside DC. I have no problems with standards, I just think using DC or it's surrounding area as an example of a "success", is setting the bar WAY to low. Sorry, man.

My mom loves the Target in downtown Minneapolis. Of course she is from Parma. :) I have no problem with downtown retail done correctly. Hell even a strip mall Target downtown would look better than a surface lot, but I think we can do better downtown. Point taken on SYC, although the view would be kinda brutal. And I did a stint on the near west side for a while...in a bit from Tremont and every once in a while it did kinda stink. Maybe we could stack a couple of windmills facing the valley and push the smell back in?

Not a personal attack Dan, and I am sorry you took it that way. I'm just poiniting out that the area we live in is not great as you point out. That DC isn't about urban planning like say the city of Seattle is. I'll gladly stop talking about DC when you stop ripping Cleveland. In fact my first point was about SYC, until you made that smart ass question.

If there's only a few things that are done right in the DC area, the first has to regionalism. There are a few incorporated cities in MD and VA but for the most part your 'city' has mostly to with your zip code. Most services around here are done on a county level (outside of the incorporated cities, which are again few and far between) making some of the area's school districts the largest in the nation and because of the pooling of a counties resources some of the best public schools in the nation. It's a large reason as to why companies move here. But because we are a 'tri-state' area (granted DC isn't a state) we still have a battle between DC, MD and VA. But I think moving services from a city to a county level would do nothing but good for the Cleveland/Akron area...or hell, all of Ohio for that matter. Lets hope it's taken seriously.

The Wallace move hurts Detroit and helps Chicago. But even with Wallace Chicago won't win much more than 50 game unless they get someone who can help Wallace in the paint. It does set the Cavs up nice to possibly win the division next year and get a #2 seed.

Dan, like what they did with the old Convention Center in DC? It's a gigantic SURFACE parking lot with fake grass. How about RFK...surface lots galore. I don't know where you get off thinking where you live is better. You need to look around the town for once not just Capitol Hill and NW, I know I do. Those construction cranes aren't stopping people from moving away from the "city".