Old AmrapinVA

The rankings are based on business travellers use of airports. They ask thousands in their survey to rank the airports based on certain criteria. Alot of people disagree with the rankings, but you gotta understand that JD Power's rankings aren't really based on how pretty an airport is. Business travellers would fly out of a shed if it meant saving 30 minutes to catch a flight. It's an important poll because business travel makes up most of the airlines profits. It takes into account location and quality of car rental facilites, transportation options when leaving the airport to get the city center, parking facilites, etc. Take LGA...it's a zoo...but it's never taken me more than 10 minutes (w/o checked bags) to get from a gate to public transportation/15 for airport parking. Likewise in Cleveland. A place like IAD is prettier in some aspects than the respective airports I mentioned...but if you land in the D gates it can take up to 25-30 minutes to get public transportation (which outside of taxi is a bus that runs every half hour to a Metro station that takes another 30 minutes to get downtown) and parking can take as long as 45. You don't really care about the prettiness of a terminal when you tired and just want to get the hotel/home. The only reason I think CLE should upgrade gate facilites is because it's still more of a narrow-body (737,757) airport than a widebody (767, 777) airport.

^^ I hear ya KJP My only question would be where SYC is located in terms of having any livability down there. I know where the Jennings Fwy. merges with I-71. Isn't there alot of Mittal Steel stuff in that area? And if it's actually in the valley with the furnaces and the mills and not on a pleatau above it, I don't even know if you could get low income folks to move down there. Unless the steel mills shut down completely and are torn down, the valley is Cleveland's biggest detriment in terms of growth and a problem in getting housing around SYC. It's hard to believe that in the scope of 5 miles the valley can go from industrial wasteland to National Park. It would be nice to fix the valley and move the park borders north and keep some of the remnants of the mills as a museum.

Yet, Dan, the POS Home Depot as you put it was touted in the DC media the same way SYC is being touted today. And that Home Depot gave jobs to residents in neighborhood where none were to be found. My argument is far from class warfare, it's on the premise that an undereducated person in Cleveland or DC or wherever is more likely to get a job a Home Depot than Nordstroms or Starbucks. But the Nordstroms does look prettier. The Rhode Island mixed use development is not affordable to people in the neighborhood. It's great news for rich kids going to Catholic U. though. And I guess the homeless can just move further up NY Avenue. And don't spin Loudoun County that way...you know as well as I do that a home in Ashburn and Leesburg are half of what housing costs for a townhome in Capitol Hill or NW or Arlington. The super-rich folks that buy housing say in Western Loundon only make up a very small fraction of the population growth of the county. And there are very few super-rich people moving to say....Frederick County or Stafford County or Prince William County. Farmland is being leveled because townhomes that went for $100,000 in DC 20 years ago are now going $1.1 million. And as for the middle class argument...then why is almost ALL OF THE HOUSING in DC and inside the beltway built before 1970 looks middle class. It wasn't until the 1980's before we started seeing McMansions and these "mixed use" condos for the upper middle class and up. The architechure around here dosen't wash with that argument there has never been a middle class here. People move to the burbs not for a car, but because there are no education options for people in the city. Affordable good private education is unavailable to those make less than $100/k. In Arlington and Alexandria it simply has to with the fact that while mixed use buildings pop-up all around metro stations...two or three-site homes are being razed for one McMansion away from those stations. It's washing itself out. Like I said....Cleveland would be well advised not going the route of DC growth

Hopefully this will come out a little larger. 2000 acres went bye-bye for this. Edited: No source for the attached image

I don't know if this picture will attach but if it does this gives you some of the idea of what's happening to our farmland in VA thanks to this "great mixed" use housing here in the DC area. It's called Brambleton...and there are 9 more projects of similar stature being built in the county. I wouldn't call it urban either.

Dan I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this one. When DC built the WAL-MART/HOME DEPOT center on Brentwood Rd. NE, it was all over the news - print and TV. You and and I have travelled similar paths but have very different views on what Cleveland should become. The last place I would want Cleveland to be is DC. DC has two types of people - the rich - Capitol Hill included in that...and the poor...NE and especially SE. DC has no middle class. In fact neither does Arlington or Alexandria...which explains why all three juristictions are losing population while this one of the fastest growing regions in the country. DC isn't NYC or Chicago where there are several classes of people living apartment/condo/townhome style housing. These great mixed use facilites by Metro you tout as being the backbone of making DC a "great" city are the primary reason why people living in some cases are 50-mi + from the city center. Only rich people can afford to live near them so everyone else has to move further out in order to find affordable housing. And let's be honest the outer counties aren't buliding up...they're building out. That's why the DC public school system is a mess. All the rich people put their kids in private schools....and the middle class folks (like myself) have to go to suburban juristictions to get their kids a decent public education....forcing the poorest to bear the brunt of the underdeveloped DC system. How does this differ from Cleveland now? I think building a Wal-Mart or a Home Depot brings jobs....rises the standard of living for people and creates a middle class in the city. It's a vibrant middle class that changes the face of a city. Why is it OK for say Starbucks or Urban Outfitters to move in paying shit-wages...while it's bad for Home Depot who will hire 100X more people than any one Starbucks? Because it's prettier? I want too see as many citizens in Cleveland get a piece of the economic pie and not get left out like 3/5 of DC residents are even with all the high-end retail downtown.

CLE almost slipped out of the medium range category it fell from something like 13 million pax in 2000 to around 10.9 in 2003...although it's gained a million pax from that low by 2005. On a brighter note....I think if CAK gets another 500,000 pax per year annually it will make the small airport list. I think the cutoff is 2 million pax annually.

Rankings are based on passenger surveys. Regionally, Cleveland/Pittsburgh scored very well and Detroit wasn't far behind, anything above 700 is an equivalent to an 'A' grade by passengers. Columbus and Cincinnati fared around average. CLE was the only CAL hub to get more than 700 pts. Results were released on June 29. Give credit to Mok for putting CLE where it is. On a side note, has anyone been to Calgary? 626 is an ugly number. Overall Airport Satisfaction Index Scores (Based on a 1,000-point scale) Large Airport Ranking (30 million passengers or more per year) Las Vegas McCarran International (LAS) 706 New York John F. Kennedy International (JFK) 703 Philadelphia International (PHL) 703 Dallas/Ft. Worth International (DFW) 698 Chicago O'Hare International (ORD) 697 Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County (DTW) 697 George Bush Intercontinental/Houston (IAH) 695 Newark International (EWR) 695 Phoenix Sky Harbor (PHX) 693 Large Airport Segment Average 692 Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International (ATL) 690 Miami International (MIA) 688 Minneapolis/St. Paul International (MSP) 687 Los Angeles International (LAX) 686 Orlando International (MCO) 685 Denver International (DEN) 681 San Francisco International (SFO) 663 Medium Airport Ranking (10 million to less than 30 million passengers per year) New York LaGuardia International (LGA) 722 Chicago Midway International (MDW) 709 Baltimore Washington International (BWI) 706 Cleveland Hopkins International (CLE) 702 Pittsburgh International (PIT) 700 Tampa International (TPA) 698 Lambert St. Louis International (STL) 696 Sacramento International (SMF) 694 San Diego International/Lindbergh Field (SAN) 694 Salt Lake City International (SLC) 691 Toronto Pearson International (YYZ) 691 Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International (FLL) 690 Louis Armstrong New Orleans International (MSY) 686 Memphis International (MEM) 686 Ronald Reagan Washington National (DCA) 685 Medium Airport Segment Average 685 San Jose International (SJC) 683 Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International (CVG) 677 Charlotte Douglas International (CLT) 675 Seattle-Tacoma International (SEA) 675 Washington Dulles International (IAD) 675 Boston Logan International (BOS) 674 Oakland International (OAK) 671 Honolulu International (HNL) 669 Portland (OR) International (PDX) 661 Vancouver International (YVR) 657 Calgary International (YYC) 626 Small Airport Ranking (Less than 10 million passengers per year) Dallas Love Field (DAL) 718 Houston Hobby International (HOU) 718 Orange County John Wayne (SNA) 706 Southwest Florida International (RSW) 705 El Paso International (ELP) 704 Bradley International (BDL) 703 Long Beach (LGB) 703 San Antonio International (SAT) 701 Small Airport Segment Average 692 Raleigh-Durham International (RDU) 691 Kansas City International (MCI) 687 Port Columbus International (CMH) 687 Nashville International (BNA) 686 Albuquerque International Sunport (ABQ) 678 Tucson International (TUS) 677 Indianapolis International (IND) 674 Austin-Bergstrom International (AUS) 672 Burbank Bob Hope (BUR) 664 Boise (BOI) 654

CLE-MEX not in the flight guide for July 2006 either. But from what I understand you can apply and even have a start date for a route and it's still vaild for quite some time. That being said, and again I know I'm in the minority on this one, Mok and Campbell had alot of grand ideas for Hopkins in terms of new service but nothing ever came of them. We actually have less international service than when White was mayor. And under White we did good job of pissing of CAL and a few international carriers that wanted service in Hopkins. I just hope the charter plan didn't fall through. As for Copa, I highly doubt that will happen due to their ties to CAL. I'd like to see Lufthansa start service in CLE. Air France is too tied up with Delta, and we are to close to the Delta CVG hub to see CDG/Air France service. As for the other airlines mentioned in the first post....if we can't get this AeroMex charter thing off the ground, I don't see them lining up for Hopkins service. There is a silver lining in all this...in that CAL is picking up 787's. They are touted as being very fuel efficent and performance friendly and easy to change configuration in the aircraft. I could see current 757 service being replaced by the 787 and CAL having less excuses for not allowing more international service out of CLE. That being said....terminal upgrades are a must...and maybe that's why Mok is out. Just a thought.

BWI's transformation is not the result of one guy, though. The State of Maryland has sunk incredible sums of money into that airport over the past few years. What a fantastic airport--you can fly direct to Manchester, NH or Ghana, and everywhere in between, not to mention the rail connection to the entire Northeast Corridor. True, the business climate in this region drives a lot of the investment (what other region has three solid airports?), but on the other side of the coin, I think Cleveland's complacency and reluctance to invest in itself have helped drive Hopkins in the other direction. All these factors are tightly intertwined. BWI is nice, DCA is nicer but won't be able to grow much....to bad the airport I work at - Dulles....is pretty much a dump except for the B concourse. It is probably the worst designed airport in the country in terms of layout.

Yeah, but let's be honest it's not like Detroit's economy is not growing by leaps and bounds and they have a hub in DTW that puts any one of the three airports here in the DC area to shame. Not only non-stops to Tokyo...but to freaking Nagoya. If Cincinnati can have year round non-stops to London-Gatwick, Paris and Frankfurt, I don't think it's that far of a stretch to think Cleveland to have the same service. It starts with upgrading the terminal facility for wide-body service. The runway extention should be done next year...it's time to get the terminal up do date. That's why I think they dumped Mok. It's not going to cost billions of dollars to turn the A gates or the C gates into something more modern. Like I said, I think Jackson gets it more than Campbell did on this one. If Continental wont provide the service after the upgrades....then you get a Lufthansa to provide service and put the screws to Continental.

I may be in the minority but I think the BWI guy was great pick up for the airport. While Mok did a good job of turning Hopkins from an embarassment to now just a below average airport, I wouldn't say he did a great job. The airport looks nicer from the arrival/departures area...and the closer parking garage was need. But the mayor is right...when you fly into Hopkins and see it from the gate...it looks like an airport from the 1960's. On top of that Mok did a good job of pissing of Continetal a few times, and honestly if CAL leaves Hopkins, airport traffic will look like Pittsburgh in a heart beat. The airport 'expansion' has not gone very smooth either. People in Brook Park are still wondering if their houses are going to bought. That being said, you could build a 14,000 ft. runway and I still don't think you'd have any demand from airlines to fly internationally besides cargo. The BWI guy on the other hand turned BWI from a completely domestic USAir hub....into a minor truly international airport with a large low-cost carrier presence. BWI now has non-stops to London-Heathrow on British Airways, Reykavik(sp?) on IcelandAir and Shannon, Ireland on Aer Lingus. How? They actually have an international terminal....not a just a few gates at the end of a concourse. And it's better than CLE's current summer only London-Gatwick service that Continental provides and constantly threatens to shut down. Beyond Gatwick...what does CLE really offer outside of LGW in terms of international service? Cancun on Saturdays? I don't really count Toronto and Montreal. I think Jackson sees that Continental will not take Cleveland Hopkins seriously as a hub unless he makes a serious change. When was the last time Continental offered service to new city out of CLE? 1999? Oh...I think Continental is offering a non-stop to Hunington and Clarksburg, W. Va. next month. That wouldn't have happened if PIT's US Air hub hadn't collapsed. And seriously...how about a flight to San Diego before West Virginia. That being said the ONLY way to get Cleveland Hopkins truly modernized before it's too late is to let a County or Multi-County entity run it...and get it out of the hands of the Port Authority of Cleveland. Just a thought from a new guy on the board