coneflower

I am confused what the debate is here. That new house is on its own lot. The historic map @Dino posted shows there were 2 houses on that small lot in 1898. Looking on Google maps, there are fewer structures in the neighborhood now vs. back then, so this is surely not a debate about historical preservation. The way I look at it, if you want land and privacy, you gotta buy it. It's the only way to can really control what happens around (although if the government wants it enough, they can still take it...)) But you can't trust that land you don't control will stay exactly the same in perpetuity.

They should be spending their time pushing back on the drastic cuts proposed by Trump.

This article from the guy tasked with leading the waterfront redevelopment is meant to prod Columbus and the Haslams to come back downtown. But since it seems like there is basically zero chance of that happening, it's a pretty depressing read... https://www.crainscleveland.com/commentary/opinion-browns-stadium-decision-will-heavily-impact-clevelands-lakefront-future

I'm guessing it's cheaper and faster to repurpose the building in Westlake, which appears to be in good shape. My assumption is the challenge Cleveland has securing modern industrial businesses stems from the fact that it doesn't have many existing buildings that are ready to go or there is not much open land to build on and when it does, it sounds like the permitting process is longer and more onerous than in many suburbs. On the flip side, because of all our sprawl over decades, there are lots of existing buildings around the region that can be a good fit. I wish more businesses would be civic-minded but it's tough in a competitive market to leave savings on the table. I could be way off with my analysis and welcome other views on it.

This is unfortunate. I would be curious to read an objective analysis of available land/buildings in Cleveland vs suburbs. I read an article not long ago about a young guy with a business looking for a large industrial space and he wanted to stay in Cleveland but wasn’t finding anything and it might have been Terry Coyne or someone similar who said it’d be hard to do.

Are all those buildings shown to illustrate what the site would look like fully built out over many years? There are 6 residential buildings in that plan. That seems really aggressive. Who do they think will live there? Even if they make the development top notch, they can't change the surrounding area (airport, auto factory, strip clubs, etc.). If I were open to living in a suburban mixed-use development, I'd still think Crocker Park and Pinecrest are more desirable. I'm sure they want to charge top dollar for these units. I guess we'll see what happens...

They didn't have to gobble up 100+ acres of farmland and it doesn't sound like they are getting some massive tax break, plus hopefully many of the events being displaced will go downtown and bolster that area. I'd rather have a Boeing airplane manufacturing plant there but this seems a net benefit to me. It's kind of surprising this was a possibility and no one was talking about it until this week, though.

I just listened to the podcast. I still don't know what the heck they are talking about. They just rant and complain without providing the audience any actual facts or context what they are talking about. They say council is against it but don't say where that comes from or even who specifically may be opposed! I have listened to a few of their podcasts and they are almost all negative and condescending. It's like they are trying to fill the void left by Trivisonno.

Consolidating everything downtown and not letting the Haslams taking it to their development should be the goal. Our convention center's exhibit hall is pretty small. I'd b curious what event planners think... I imagine it's a little easier to work with a big, giant open space vs. a lot of nooks and crannies.

It looks like they sprayed grass seed on the hillside and put a mesh netting over it to keep it from eroding while it established roots. I have seen that on much smaller hills.

A lot of talk about GCP recently. Seeing how aggressively they and other local organizations mobilize to push back on this will be very telling. Normally Congress mostly ignores president’s proposed budgets but who knows these days.

In 2005, we didn’t even have a riverfront 🤣 I know the commenter above is famously negative but the city is much better than it was 20 years ago. I don’t think anyone is arguing it has transformed like Nashville or Austin or is perfect by any means, but it has certainly improved and there is reason to feel optimistic it will continue to improve, especially on the lakefront if the money promised from the feds does come through like @KJP ’s reporting indicates right now.

I also question how powerful the local business community is public opinion wise vs. the '70s. I may be wrong because I wasn't alive then but I think the environment is different. Back then, there were lots of wealthy people with well-known names locally with generational investment and interests that held a lot of weight in the community. Today, the public highly values our local employers but I don't think the CEO of SW or Key weighing in on local politics or public affairs outside of something that relates to their business specifically makes much of a dent, which is why they don't do it outside of GCP. That's good and bad--bad because it shows less personal investment in the region. A lot of senior executives today may not see Cleveland as their "forever home" but a stop on a career-long tour of duty.

Are they surprised the chamber of commerce that represents and defends the interests of business is beholden to wealthy business owners? This to me is a healthy rupture because these non-profits are not co-equal branches of government and are not tasked with worrying about regular people. That is government's job. Solicit their feedback and listen when applicable but weigh it alongside many other perspectives.

Bibb seemed to be moderating his position yesterday--still against the move but also saying they are considering what to do with the lakefront if the Browns do leave. Assuming the Browns are for sure heading to BP, it would be ideal for all parties to come to some detente. The Haslams providing tangible support to the lakefront effort like paying to remove the stadium and maybe in-kind lobbyist contributions and their own support in Columbus and DC with Republicans to get more infrastructure funding. The one wildcard is Ronayne. I'm not sure what his end game is. At some point it becomes a little awkward for him to be fighting a big investment in his county.

Can we talk about how ugly this thing is? Will it look like that for sure? Why does it have to look like a data center mixed with a mega church?

It's hard to follow all the details but it's not a question of Chris Ronayne forking over $200M even if he wanted to--the Browns want to increase the bed tax, which requires votes in Columbus and the county council. The local hotel association opposes this because they say their taxes are already too high nationally and there isn't a groundswell of resident support and the Haslams saying they'll do it no matter, which gives the county an easy out to not contribute. That said, I'm not sure how tenable it is to have such a tense relationship between the team and local government but if they do end up building a new stadium, they aren't going anywhere for several decades so maybe it doesn't matter.

I didn't say no jazz, I said mix it up with other art forms. Playhouse Square right now hosts musicals, theater, stand-up comics, pop music (Vince Gill is performing there this year. I saw B.B. King there years ago). Edit: I don't need to keep posting new comments on this but I'm suggesting they be inclusive of all performing arts. Take this list of genres and copy it! https://www.kennedy-center.org/whats-on/explore-by-genre/

I hope they don't go with jazz club as an exclusive format for the Greyhound spot. I love jazz but it's pretty elitist and the audience isn't that big. This seems like a good opportunity for a smaller performing arts space that can host all sorts of stuff like small theater productions, singer-songwriters, etc. AND jazz.

I don't see this being a big threat to downtown, either. I might change my tune if they added a smaller theater in this complex like what is available at Playhouse Square. I saw SoFi stadium has a smaller theater in it. But absent that, it's not like a performer on the level of John Mayer is going to switch from the arena to the football stadium. That's a 100% increase in the supply of tickets. Our population is too small for that kind of demand. Even Beyonce is having trouble selling tickets to her big shows.

I'm just very skeptical that he would have it in him to veto anything.

The mention of the jail moving sounds like they’ve been reading Terry Coyne’s posts on LinkedIn where he has argued the county moved more jobs out of Cleveland than the Browns. Can anyone see any reason why this doesn’t go through? At this point, I can’t. Both houses and governor support. When I saw those new airport renderings, I thought to myself, they are going to be even more committed to being across the street.

Great article, @KJP . The comment from Griffin that the city dropped the ball on lakefront negotiations was a little hint maybe he’s going to run against Bibb? That’s the first time I’ve seen him that directly through the mayor under the bus. I think that hot take is bogus—from the Haslam perspective, your own giant property and free state money would always be more attractive than rehabbing the current stadium. Releasing that image now is pointless since the decision-making resides with state Republicans. The only argument that seems like it could work with them is “this is a boondoggle that pulls resources from what is important in your community. Hell, you probably cheer for the Steelers or Bengals!” But even then I’m not sure it makes a difference because our state lawmakers never make any decision based on how good it is for voters.

I can't read the article. What do they mean by trail completion? Paved walking trails and then greenspace around it?

I think what we're seeing is a dome is basically required now to have an NFL team in your region. The league may not say that is a policy but I bet by 2045 most teams will have dome or have plans to build domes.