coneflower

The Browns and city’s lakefront designs look pretty similar to me. They have the same basic components in the same general areas. The city’s plan has a bit more park to it but it’s not massively different. I’m sure that is probably pretty frustrating to Bibb they basically formalized what Haslam wanted and then we pulled out. I don’t know how they get the Haslams back downtown without a bunch of concessions though. Owning and controlling 100 acres I’m sure is very exciting to them. Keeping the stadium where it is would seem to eliminate all that potential real estate value for the Browns, unless the city gives all that land to the team to do what they want or has away to pass along more revenue to them.

I wonder if Haslam said he’d do the downtown renovation but he wanted to control development/do his own plan, would Bibb go for that?

I think a lot of people base trips around staying at nice hotels for a short stay. Mix in some good food, going to the museums or a show and Cleveland is an awesome spot for a long weekend. That is how I approach places like Nashville. Really curious to see what this new hotel looks like.

Yost's filing against Browns' Modell Law suit 'shows state wants Browns in Cleveland' https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/dave-yost-fights-browns-lawsuit-over-modell-law Interesting POV from a Case professor. Says Yost coming to defense of state law was not surprising but strong language was. Suggests the state prefers the team stay in Cleveland. Or Yost is using it to help is hopes running for governor next year, knowing Haslam is not popular, especially in NEO.

Besides land, it's probably hard to say we have 4,000 people with the skills they need ready for work. Columbus has land + they can say they have the strongest population growth in the state.

If they did "move," it could turn out like down in Columbus when Chase bought Bank One a million years ago. Seems like they have only grown jobs since then, although Jamie Dimon is based in NYC. I don't know if JD Vance cares but having the largest steel company HQed in his state would seem to be pretty attractive. I'm not convinced they are playing 4D chess to think about winning PA in 2028. I guess we'll see, though. Impossible to anticipate at this point. Goncalves really wound us up, didn't he!

To me it looked like him desperately say whatever he needed to get a deal. The main obstacles right now are the government, so if he can get folks in PA comfortable, then that gets rid of a roadblock. What I don't understand is why Trump would care about PA and its the Dem. governor/mayor. Kind of shows Vance doesn't have much power, though.

This has nothing to do with Cleveland. He wants US Steel and will stop at nothing to get it. It’s clearly all consuming for him.

All the peons get to stay. Also total aside but it’s hilarious his is so dismissive of UPMC which makes 6X US Steel’s revenue.

He sounds desperate to me and is throwing stuff at the wall to try and get a deal. But lots of companies "move their HQs" and it's their CEO and leadership folks but everyone else stays behind. I didn't realize how poor their balance sheet was regardless.

Bombastic is one way of putting it.

And VP JD Vance... edit: WHAT! I just read this Axios article and he said this?! "China is bad, China is evil, but Japan is worse ... Japan, beware. You don't understand who you are. You have not learned anything since 1945."

Redirected from Lakefront Development thread: A couple ideas for the history nerds like me... They could relocate or build a few New England/Western Reserve-style buildings to offer a small glimmer of what downtown Cleveland looked like when it was founded. But instead of the country stuff you see at Hale Farm, make it urban and tie it into the water as all that stuff was lost. It could be programmed by Hale Farm/WRHS. Then take some of those trollies mentioned above and put them on a track that loops the property. People would love that. Mix that with the park stuff already planned, modern housing, retail and restaurants and that could be a pretty neat attraction. I agree with the comment above about mixing in lots of interesting things rather than going for a silver bullet that fills in all that stadium space with one thing.

I mean the Brooklyn Bridge is pretty dang old...

That's interesting. I don't know what Barnabas and Whiskey Grade are, but that doesn't mean anything. Just shows how out of it I am! Is Van Aken trying to compete with Pinecrest then? It seems like they'd be better off with a model more akin to "downtown" Hudson or Chagrin Falls that embraces the neighborhood with interesting shops geared to the area but not trying to compete for the big retailers at Pinecrest, etc. But I also don't work in this field so maybe I'm way off! edit: Per comment below, that is along the lines of what I meant. Not necessarily they need super expensive stores but stores geared to the people who live close by.

how much money does their owner give the state party though? 😇

We can all have different opinions, but I disagree with this. If you step off the plane and walk into a bathroom that is nasty or wait 45 minutes for your suitcase, it's not a good impression. But bigger picture, why can't we have a nice airport, nice rail service to the airport and nice downtown? That is what frustrates me around here. Of course let's be budget conscious but we shouldn't have to accept subpar services and amenities. Edit: Whoops @eyehrtfood wrote the same thing and better than me. Count this as a super thumbs up to what he/she said.

Pinecrest and CP for sure have more people. I meant proportionately, I'd say Van Aken is just as busy. It's a lot smaller so there will be less people total. But I also don't think Van Aken is competing with those shopping centers head-to-head. It only has a handful of stores, most of which aren't big national brands, and most of the rest are restaurants and service providers like barbers and hair salons. In my experience the food hall, Brassica, Boom Pizza, Mitchell's, Northstar, Stump the plant shop and Cleveland Clothing Company all look pretty busy when I go (around 2X a month). I do wonder about Shinola. Their shop is very cool but seem to rarely have customers. If there was a local bookshop, I'd be there ALL the time.

It’s freaking cold right now! My own experience has been the area gets good foot traffic. I’m surprised you would say that. It’s as busy as Pinecrest in my experience, although I normally go there after work or weekends

The quotes from the state Republican leadership make it sound like Jimmy getting state money is gonna happen. This doesn’t sound like somebody who has a lot of big concerns. “This is a $4 billion development in the state of Ohio. I think $1.2 billion of that is for a football stadium, but there are transportation parts to it, housing parts to it," Huffman said. "And what they're asking for is some of that to be paid for with bonds, bonds that would ultimately, the suggestion - and it usually is with these things - is that the taxes recouped will pay the public's cost for the bonds. But in this case, the organization is actually guaranteeing that that will happen, which that never happens in these cases. So, we'll just have to see what the final product is. But I know they've been working for some time." https://www.ideastream.org/2025-01-07/lawmakers-expecting-cleveland-browns-ask-for-stadium-money-possibly-in-state-budget

Interesting article in the WSJ https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/commercial/real-estate-office-vacancies-shortages-1b640791?st=7kruM2&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

For sure people who pick where a company locates its offices, people who plan events and conferences, etc. pay attention to this. Also, just public opinion in general. Everybody knows the worst airports and we have a hard enough time convincing people Cleveland is a great place to be.

If CLE was in good shape, the city wouldn't be planning a $3B renovation. Are there worse air travel experiences out there with bathrooms that would make a sewage system worker choke? I'm sure there are but why are we measuring ourselves by that end of the spectrum?

I think there is a seed of a good idea here but a ton of flaws, which makes it no surprise all the electeds are "running away from the idea." First of all, the idea that this will stop teams from leaving is unrealistic. This tax would only increase the pot of money to draw from, and the teams would come up with more and more grandiose ways to spend it. I also don't blame other counties for not wanting to fund an entertainment amenity outside their jurisdiction. And what happens when a team says it wants to move to a different county within the commission? There are too many conflicts of interest for this to work. Where I personally think this concept could be more interesting is the airports, which let's just be honest, are not moving any time soon. Put Akron and Cleveland under the same regional authority, which draws public funding. That's what they do in NYC and DC, right? That would make investment of tax money more equitable and more people, no matter where they live in the region, would benefit.

I agree that calling Hopkins a “dump” as the editor of the PD does is ridiculous. But if you look at the other airports we are ranked against in the JD Power list, which I know has flaws, they are objectively much nicer than CLE. I don’t think we need to build a whole new airport but what we have needs renovated, stat. I traveled in the last couple weeks with my spouse, who used one of the newly renovated restrooms and they said it was the most disgusting public restroom they ever used. If there is a way to outsource or improve the bathroom cleanliness, I do think that would be a huge improvement. The security line also is atrocious early in the morning. The food options are lackluster. The ceilings are low and the space is dark and depressing. This is all stuff that can get improved so it’s not a lost cause. And I know the airport is planning renovations that are discussed here that will probably help with most of this but the time it is taking is too long. Our government needs to learn how to pick up the pace around here.