coneflower

I was going to say, "hey, CLE isn't so bad..." but then I googled rankings before I wrote anything and saw it was ranked last in mid-sized airports by JD Power. That is embarrassing.

Sort of interesting the new Cuyahoga county council president represents Brook Park and wards in Cleveland that include the airport: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/01/cuyahoga-county-council-elects-new-leader.html

This statement seems a little more open-ended. “We have executed the clause and taken the necessary steps in our land purchase agreement with the current owners to solidify our future purchase of the 176-acre site in Brook Park for a new Huntington Bank Field enclosed stadium, along with an adjacent mixed-use development,” Haslam Sports Group chief operating officer Dave Jenkins said in a statement. “While work remains with our public partners on the project, this is a key step in our efforts to create a responsible long-term stadium solution that delivers a world-class experience for our fans, attracts more large-scale events for our region and positively impacts our local economy.” Edit: All these articles coming out saying the purchased the land doesn't sound accurate. The Browns are volleying back at Bibb with this mini-update.

New York doesn’t have an issue with vacant office space because their local economy is more dynamic than ours. In terms of the global scene, Americans are also more highly paid but our job security, benefits and paid time off are terrible compared to Europe. My own belief is that American workers view this as one benefit they do get they don’t want to give up. The highest levels if WFH are people in cities, so I’m not so sure we can just blame it on sprawl. I do think it’d be cool to see employers invest in housing and mixed use to get people into offices. We haven’t seen it yet but I think it’s a good idea. I’m not arguing working downtown in an office is bad or something. I’m just trying to put a practical lense on it. I think there are a lot of challenges but expecting employers to bring the hammer down to solve it is not going to work.

I can’t believe we’re still debating WFH in 2025. At this point, it’s a standard benefit every company is going to look at on a sliding scale from none at all to embracing it. Providing flexibility is something employers can use to entice workers, especially if they don’t pay top dollar like Amazon or Chase. Something that gets lost when talking about this is in our region, it allows a lot of smaller companies to source qualified people nationwide, which may be more critical than getting butts in cubes. I don’t see this phenomena changing at all. Although, surely there will be optimization, like requiring people to come on the same days. That is what Smuckers has been doing to maximize in person time. The big challenge I see for downtown is for many jobs there is no real need for proximity. Where there is value of having people physically close, like having lawyers near the courthouse, you see folks making use of downtown offices. But because our economy is now a hub of a national and international market, many colleagues or customers are going to be in other places, so those companies are going to pick locations that are cheaper, more convenient, etc. There isn’t much need for prestige space downtown. I know it’s easier said then done but my pitch to the powers that be is WFH is not the problem, it’s lack of economic growth. If we had more job growth, empty office buildings would not be as big of a problem.

This break-up is not going well. Who keeps the dog?

That San Antonio rendering is actually really cool. Now I'm jealous. I don't know anything about Texas. The former mayor of San Antone suggested in this article pairing the two cities to get the NFL but he didn't propose a timeline: https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/pro-football/nfl-san-antonio-franchise-expansion-austin-cisneros/273-8f4d36e1-5edb-460a-9d89-0d465f8d5631

Mention of Terry Coyne in another thread sent me to his LinkedIn and saw he has posted recently about the new stadium. He says: "...Which means that the Browns, who reaffirmed their relocation to Brookpark this week with their announcement of their architect, may win the Modell lawsuit, and have no compunction to work with the city on a friendly departure since the city and county have decided to litigate rather negotiate. I reiterate my earlier post, the city should make a financial deal with the Browns upon their departure. Litigation rarely ends as expected. Secure money for demolition and site prep from the Browns and look to the future." Also an interesting comment from Tessa Jackson, that is worth considering: "San Antonio business leaders have been trying to get a team for decades and they know they the only option is an existing team because the league has no plans to add another 4, so they'll happily take what they can get. Also, the Browns didn't technically sue—they asked the courts for a ruling to provide clarity on the constitutionality of the Modell Law, knowing that the courts don't have to provide it. If anything, that gambit all but told the City not to treat the Modell Law like a trump card, esp. when any suit will eventually wind up in SCOTUS where losing is all but assured." Did a quick Google and saw the idea that Austin and San Antonio could team up and put a team halfway between both cities and have it represent central Texas. Seems plausible!

Anybody carpetbagging into town to run for mayor at this point is wasting their time unless their name is LeBron James.

It's doubtful to me Bibb is going to face any serious electoral threats this year. Him and Griffin seem to be generally aligned on big stuff, and I'm guessing Griffin is waiting to see when Bibb decides to go after a bigger job. But Bibb isn't winning statewide without delivering more tangible results for Cleveland and that requires more time. If it was me, I'd much rather work on transforming Cleveland than be a bureaucrat like Mayor Pete.

This is my thought too. Nobody is going to Heartwood Coffee in Pinecrest and thinking, “you know what this needs? An NFL stadium.” On the flip side, the Pinecrest, Crocker Park et al folks cannot love the idea of the state/county government paying someone from out of town to subsidize a competitor to their own developments. My own hunch is this whole thing is not a real threat to the suburban malls or downtown, but we all deserve more than just hunches to evaluate the potential implications!

Their job listings still say remote, so a lot of people may not even be going into their new office. And to the point above, a lot of office workers don’t leave the building once they are in for the day. So, even with a smaller capacity, apartments and hotel rooms could give the neighborhood a bump.

There is so much about this project that hasn’t been covered. Some other things that would be useful to know: It’s been said by the Haslams and some in the government that this effort will grow the economy regionally. Where is the evidence? The plan currently doesn’t seem to contemplate interaction with the airport even though it’s right next to it. How does the team/developer expect to maximize that connection? What do other private parties that could be impacted think of this? Like Dan Gilbert’s team. Or the people at Crocker Park, etc. Do they view this as a threat? If the county did contribute funds to this, what are the opportunity costs (I.e. what could we be potentially be taking from?) What are Cleveland’s options if the lakefront is abandoned by the Browns. Is the plan dead without money? Or could there be other partners out there who would be interested in doing anything there?

I’m curious to see how Tecovas does. I was out of town recently and saw a store that was getting good foot traffic but I was in the south, and I wasn’t sure how Western wear would go over around here.

I'd rather get a season of Top Chef than a Super Bowl. What do cities get out of hosting the Super Bowl, really? At least with Top Chef they make some of the weekly contests based around local history and culture and they feature local chefs and local food-related businesses. I am sure those episodes drive tourists visits to those cities. I remember when the Super Bowl was played in Detroit but I don't remember them talking about anything beside it being cold. The Haslams' decision-making has proven so poor, there is no reason to think a Brook Park dome/development--even if it is possible to fund--would be successful. It's telling the main people in charge are not from here. I have a hard time seeing people east and south of Cleveland going out of their way to drive to the airport for a Browns-themed Crocker Park, unless they are going to a game. We already have ample suburban retail/restaurant locations that are well-maintained and current and CLOSE to home for those folks. The thing that is crazy about all this is where there is demonstrated demand for transformational development is in the city, which is underserved!

How long would it take to litigate the Modell law? Besides the case outcome there is the PR impact. Model still can’t get in the HOF and his football legacy is far superior to what Haslam will ever be. They are all playing games to try and push each other to their desired outcomes. I’m not sure if there is a realistic alternative city for the team besides Cleveland. On the flip side, the county is the clear funding linchpin they need because it is still unlikely the state is going to come through with the lion share of the money. Even if Dewine says he wants to, there is a whole state legislature to deal with. From the outside, it seems like the Haslams are now in fake support till you make it mode. We’ll see if it works

To be fair, it sounds like the Metroparks owns the property and North Royalton residents pay taxes to support the system. Seems like an equitable way to support parks across the region assuming the expense is not outrageous?

That seems surprising because it seemed like Cincy or Cleveland had the edge. The only downside to Cincy's bid was they already had an MLS team to compete against... but Denver has one, too.

I agree. I think the future of house is demand is going to be on the edges and closer to the city center. Some of the older suburbs with small houses and small lots that also aren’t walkable may be challenged. But I guess if more housing isn’t built, then demand everywhere will continue to push up prices!

Hah, it was just a thought experiment. If you read my other comments, you'll see I am not supportive of tax money for this. I am a little ambivalent on whether they build it or not without tax money. But if they do build it, right now it seems like Cleveland has the most to lose. So, are there ways to ensure that the city gets something?

Since this is a football team, here is a mock deal for moving the team where everybody gets something but nobody gets everything: State and county commit to contribute $800M to new stadium with county paying $500M and state $300M. Haslams and their investors pick up the rest. State picks up cost of infrastructure around the stadium (highways/roads) State provides funding to Cleveland for improvements to Hopkins airport to speed up renovations to better coincide with new stadium Haslams provide Cleveland funding to demolish the current stadium Haslams, Dewine, new US senators commit to helping Cleveland advocate for resources from Trump administration to advance lakefront plan.

In place of lease, you could say "length of engagement." I.E. the amount of time before they start asking for a major remodel or new building. Basically, how long before the team does this all over over again? On this I disagree. There is no way a board of business leaders is going to vote to tell another business leader on their own board that they can't decide where to locate themselves. These companies face the same decision all the time and they too accept incentives to locate here or there. The Haslams want a crazy amount of money compared to anything done before, but I find it very doubtful any business leader here is going to stick their neck out one way or the other on this. I get why Bibb and Ronayne tried but I think it's a unlikely to go their way.

Do I have this right? stay downtown: 20-25 year lease $600M upfront funding from taxpayers $350-500M more in maintenance over course of lease brook park ? Year lease commitment $1.2B upfront from taxpayers $? For roads and infrastructure $? For maintenance over initial lease or course of life Still seems more cost effective to focus on renovation unless the team commits to the new dome for 50 years, which they won’t. Seems like in 20-30 years they’ll want a huge Reno or rebuild of that, too I do agree building on airport land injects a lot on uncertainty, although maybe with Trump in office they could blow through government obstacles. But I get why the team doesn’t want to invest time in that option. Edit: It also is unlikely the GCP board will vote to oppose their fellow board member Dee Haslam when a good chunk of the board members are affiliated with other pro sports teams in town or sponsors of the Browns. The best the city/county can expect is they don’t express an opinion but I wouldn’t be surprised if they vote to support eventually. The average voter doesn’t care what these folks say though so I’m not sure it matters but what will happen depends on how residents react when real numbers are released.

I honestly wonder if the Haslams actually ever talk to normal residents of Cuyahoga County. I feel like I must be missing something because the whole idea that the county can give them $1B+ for this is so outlandish. What do they know that we don't that makes them think they can pull this off when the vast majority of people seem to agree the taxpayers should not contribute to it. I haven't seen any evidence that regular citizens are calling on Ronanye or county council to cough up the dough for this.

It's crazy he expects taxpayers to pay for all this. "So it looks like they have no interest in developing near a potential infill Red Line station, nor making any kind of pedestrian connection to the airport. Seems like a major missed opportunity to me." I bet they only open any station on game days.