coneflower

First, if they can do it with private funding, more power to them. My beef is giving this boondoggle more than a billion dollars from taxpayers. Second, this has been discussed before but we punch above our weight with our teams. Attendance across the board is strong for their leagues. If the numbers weren’t there, these teams would leave. We don’t need act like we’re Peoria.

These guys are terrible at PR.

That stinks Chipotle pulled out. In my old neighborhood in DC they vacated a similar spot that has since been home to a couple of great small local eateries. Chipotle saved them some money by investing in fixing up the building and preparing it for food service so the new places only had to renovate the look and tweak. I was thinking something similar could happen here but alas.

I'm not diminishing crime or saying anyone should accept it, but the Northeast Ohio impulse to flee the minute something bad happens only makes things worse. I know I shouldn't but I can't help reading comments on Facebook and you'd think the only place safe to hang out is under a rock in an empty field somewhere in Ashtabula County. That doesn't take away the responsibility of cities to go after crime and make people feel safe, of course.

Nick Castele, a reporter who is not a hack, mentioned JobsOhio as a potential source of funding for the new stadium. That was new to me. His sources also say state funding from the legislature would have to come in next year’s budget. So it doesn’t seem like the mystery of Jimmyland’s billion-dollar funding will be solved soon… https://signalcleveland.org/new-browns-stadium-financing-mystery-cuyahoga-county-council-recount/

Since comfort is his issue, I did a quick search. The average high in Cleveland in December is 41 degrees. The average high in Buffalo is 35, in Green Bay it is 32, Pittsburgh is 43, Foxborough is 41, and 37 in Chicago. According to this, our stadium is not even the coldest, windiest or snowiest NFL stadium!

Sounds Soviet. Fixing stuff like this is in my super secret playbook for underperforming Ohio Democrats to win elections statewide again.

Based on the city report, $8M a year in admission taxes are collected, so if I’ve got this correct, that would mean that portion of the city’s commitment would be recouped in about 28 years. Maybe less with inflation and slightly more uses? And that doesn’t cover the annual maintenance and other services. But renovating is definitely the better deal for taxpayers. My beef with the Brook Park concept is the scale of public funding required which is only going up as President Tariffs comes to office. If voters have a say on it, it certainly wouldn’t pass.

The city reports Browns games on the lakefront equate to $30M in economic activity annually (just .08% of the county’s GDP) and $10M in tax revenue a year. That’s not nothing, but that kind of ROI does not warrant $500M to $1.2B+ in public subsidies plus all sorts of ongoing costs between maintenance and police.

This isn’t too surprising. The organization represents business. Their positions may align with the public interest sometimes but they are beholden to their members and their board. Larkin says the business community should come out and oppose the new stadium. Like who? The richest people in Cleveland are the Haslams and Dan Gilbert and they don’t even live here full-time. The CEO of KeyBank isn’t going to stick their neck out for this. And the CEO of Swagelok doesn’t have the juice. I hate to sound like Roldo, but civic leadership in our region is weak. We have outsourced to non-profits the work of the government, I guess because people think the government can’t do it correctly. And maybe that is true but delegating the job of pushing out region forward to unaccountable non-profits isn’t working. And at the end of the day, better government is going to be what empowers our growth in the future. So, I give Bibb and Ronayne credit for sticking up for residents. There are definitely flaws in their approach here too but at least they are putting up the fight.

From around 2010-2014, I paid around $1,600 for a studio in DC a good half-mile from any good amenities or the Metro. I also didn’t have a car. Not exactly apples to apples, of course, but I wouldn’t hesitate to do that again in the future. Not sure about the studio bit—would be hard to go back to that. All that said, we need higher wages in this region to reflect these rents. I paid $650 for a 1BR in Lakewood in 2010 and with my salary at the time, that was comfortable rent. Are there that many jobs paying enough to say the same for $2K?

Announcing that big of a name this late in the game does seem like they know the outcome. Would Caitlin Clark want to be on the losing end of a bid? Seems doubtful. It will be interesting to see. I did wonder if Bedrock announcing a bid for a WNBA team in Cleveland was a sign of anything with this. Having two brand-new sports leagues playing at around the same time seemed a little challenging. You could argue what Cincy has for soccer infrastructure Cleveland has for basketball.

Seems like a PR move to put pressure on the league to pick Cincy. Gives the bid more buzz by bringing in the biggest female athlete right now.

I don't see any political pressure on the state or county governments that would lead to this much public money going to the Haslams. Seems like the only arrow left in their quiver is to threaten to leave and see if that scares anyone enough to pay up.

The WNBA could be in a weird position due to their growing popularity. They downsized some of their arenas to accommodate for smaller crowds, ala MLS in NFL stadiums, but now they are getting popular and more frequently playing NBA arenas. I wonder how they navigate that because going between different venues depending on who is coming to town could be a challenge.

Do these apartments have a lot of surplus? I'm not against transit, of course, but if there are people already filling most of those units, this would just increase demand and rents for those units, wouldn't it? The main problem is there isn't enough desirable housing close to the Clinic (or in many places in Cleveland). Building parking decks doesn't help, as it just incentivizes people to go elsewhere. This is great! Are these the new houses that are in the $350K+ range? It seems to me if the Clinic really wanted to make a difference, they would look at their employee population and figure out where folks live and who would be open to moving closer to work and then develop a strategy to support housing that is affordable for these folks nearby. Rather than waiting for people to develop singular lots. I'd guess people at every income level would be interested. I'm sure they don't want to get involved in this but it seems more sustainable and better for everyone than building super expensive parking decks.

Pushing the Clinic to build more housing seems like it'd be more effective. Just scrolling around on Google Maps, you can see all the vacant lots in neighborhoods around the hospital.

Again I shout into the void, where does the money come from? $1.4B+ in public funds plus whatever it costs to change roads, etc. for a Brook Park dome is certainly going to negatively impact Cleveland’s ability to fund and push forward its own lakefront redevelopment.

But none rivaled Rome itself. Thankfully, we already have a bunch of coliseums. All these events they are talking about getting already come here—just not the final event/championship or whatever. People point to Taylor Swift as a concert tour we missed—she played many open-air stadiums including Pittsburgh and Cincy. There was more to her decision than the building itself, clearly. My point is I don’t think it’s worth billions to get maybe 1 new dome-required event a year. Imagine all these things we could do that would be more impactful for the future of our region with that money. I know this has been well-tread territory but it keeps getting lost as the Browns have been successful at getting most everyone on board to spending a bunch of money without discussing whether it is worth it.

Ah yes, we the hardworking people of Ohio shall spend $2B+ in taxpayer funds in the hopes that one of our fair cities shall get a Wrestlemania or Monster Jam World Finals.

I wasn't sure if this was posted before but here is the development at SoFi stadium that it seems like the Haslam's are imitating. https://www.hollywoodparkca.com/ It's not that impressive--a few hotels, retail and restaurants, although they can add more in the future. I do notice they have a separate 6,000-seat concert hall in the stadium, though, which caught my eye. I don't know if the Browns are thinking something similar but that would definitely compete with Playhouse Square, etc. for concerts, comedy, etc. It's sort of hard to compare these places, though, since LA is clearly on another level in terms of population size, wealth, access to the entertainment industry and ample programming options. I wonder what Bibb and Ronanye are hearing from the Cavs, Guardians, Playhouse Square, etc. There has been a lot of focus on government support but those private players also have vested interest in downtown.

Would the Haslems be amendable to throwing support behind lakefront redevelopment sans stadium in exchange for support for BP from Ronayne and Bibb standing down? Or does he want to horde every public dollar for his project? Not to keep beating my head against the wall, but BP backers keep saying this opens up the lakefront for new uses... but those can't be realized without any money. If the Haslems are willing to help the city realize a new vision for that area, it seems like a compromise could be made. Let's be honest, they probably don't care to help that much. And if Trump and Moreno win, the city and county will have even fewer friends with big money in Columbus and DC. This all leads me to think whatever happens there without the stadium is going to be small and incremental to start.

It's worth the squeeze if they secure a resolution that has better terms for the city. Maybe in the end they don't keep the team on the lakefront but the Browns offer some concessions to get CLE to stand down. Funding to demolish the stadium or material support to lakefront redevelopment, etc.? I don't understand why anyone would expect the city to give up without a fight.

The city has an obligation to protect the interests of their residents. They believe the team leaving the city is a threat on a number of levels—tax revenue, drawing away public resources, decreased prestige, etc. Right now they are using the law as written to protect their residents but it has the double benefit of making it so painful the Browns decide staying is a better path. This is business and if I am a resident I want my government using every tool available to protect our interests. You for some reason think the city should roll over.

Because their objective is not to defend the law but to make it painful for the team to leave. You don’t have to like it but it’s a reasonable strategy since they don’t many other tools left. Jimmy would for sure do something like this if the shoe was on the other foot.