willyboy

I was waiting for w28th to chime in. I also think it is good that they didnt use the run of the mill lights from a supply book since the ones pictured are probably right for some of Boston's very historic neighborhoods, but can also be found nearly everywhere, so hardly unique.

Ironically Cleveland is known for a historic style of street light now used in lifestyle type developments in places such as Florida. Known as the "Cleveland style", it is a historic looking reproduction of an ornate double light, on an ornate pole. As much as Im a critic of Cleveland not taking advantage of its own history, Im not sure how they could have been fit into the futuristic looking concept of the corridor though, but it seems they could be used in other contexts downtown etc. Im guessing they would be rather cost prohibative as well due to their heavy and ornate nature. I have mixed feelings about the lights they used, but it probably didnt help with the sturdyness issue that they had to value engineer these with the use of fiberglass, which can be flimsy.. There are some things yet to be added to Playhouse square, with additional planters by next year and a center public art piece that should involve light. Otherwise they tend to not want to use trees in a way that would block views of marquees etc...

VikingGuy, get your MUPDD if you can and do good internships there. I went through the undergrad program at Levin after spending some time in Architecture, Landscape Architecture and City Planning at Ohio State. Since I wanted to be involved in Cleveland stuff, I moved back to get my degree there. It was frustrating to get a job doing what I wanted there (thats why your internships and connections you make there are so important!) and since I wasnt ready to pursue the MUPDD program, moved to DC to gain other experiences (so far all in boring Fed. govt. entities and most currently doing grant management work for the government) Since I really have missed Cleveland and being involved there, I have for a while tried to move back and have looked for work relating to either my more recent Washington experiences or ground floor kind of planning work... Im also considering the MUPPD thing... Good luck! Musky?

ITS A RENDERING AND THE FOCUS IS ON IT NOT THE ROCK HALL!! Oh.. you mean that isnt an actual picture of it already built... WELL THEN IT S%CKS.

It seems to dwarf the Rockhall, and what I thought was a marina behind seems to be a parking lot!!!! No more mistakes on the lakefront please.

Moreso, "I went to the meeting and voiced these concerns, and got these responses" (the ones that were so well thought out and compiled on UO) as opposed to "why ask Peter Lawson Jones and Fred Nance questions?" "what good will that do?" I realize this site is about sounding off, but thought it was also a powerful place for like minded people to assemble ideas and try to bring about positive change (which Cleveland could really use). (silly me for not being concerned about people clogging up the thread) I now realize that plenty of people are going that route and shouldnt assume otherwise because of what appears to be lack of input on here......

"citizens really need to get involved. Calls, attend meetings,emails and whatever you can do to apply pressure. Up until now these actions have been sorely lacking. I know for most people it is difficult to attend meetings and they are not well publicized. We must make the effort if we truly care. If the people do not show interest our 'leaders' will show none. You have made the case plainly. Let' get some e-mails going!" GreenerPastures, thank you four your input... I wish you well and hope that you have some luck rallying "somebody" on this extremely important issue. Sadly, when I suggested some of these things a page or so back I either didnt get much of a response, or got rather ambivalent ones. It apparently wasnt important that these issues are raised or that we demand some kind of accountablility for such an enormous and far reaching decision. In other words, I didnt get the feeling that people were willing to do any more than post their displeasure on here.....

Yeah I remember reading the reviews by Tommasini trying to figure out Franz. but there was yet another NY critic that I read after last year that sort of trashed them (Ill try to find where it was from) I agree Rosenburg has been tough on Franz as well. BTW the Cleveland Orchestra is considered the most European sounding orchestra out of the bunch, maybe thats why they are so popular over there, with just the right touch of American sound maybe?

A pineapple is typically used as a symbol of friendship and hospitality. Im surprised at how intact, maintained and occupied some of these little Pennsylvania towns are... Did they somehow escape the wallmart/mall on the outskirts that drained the majority of Ohios small towns (on top of the loss of industry), or are they just too remote to be effected by this?

Yea... Good to know. Ill be back for my late summer visit this weekend and will be stopping in on Saturday to do my usual stocking up of Peterson's to bring back with me (for me and the many people with Cleveland requests that have me bringing back a cooler and require stops at the West Side Market and Great Lakes). You just cant find this kinda stuff in D.C. Now if Honey Hut is still open.....?

Thats what I thought too, but what also made me surprised they were there and that they had an International traveling music critic...

Oh nothing then. I guess I imagined the 82 pages of input here... And no kidding about Hagan and Dimora, but they havent exactly made themselves available now have they. Is PLJ and Nance not also part of the process and therefore as liable for making the right decision?

Ironically, it is always somebody from NY thats gives the Cleveland a problem amid everyone elses glowing reviews. I usually take the train up to Carnegie hall every year to see the Cleveland, usually sold out, and there is always a New York review that is like eh... and then proceeds to nit pick.... Either they realize that the Cleveland is as good as it gets and they can afford to be picked on, or they are jealous. Im thinking maybe a little of both since not very long ago I read an article that indicated the New York Symphony was no longer considered one of the U.S. big five. Way to go Cleveland Orch. You do us proud!

Yes kudos! Heres to being bitchy... Oh and to KJP as well.

Ive been out of town and away form the computer for a while, but when did the expected revenue from the tax hike go from 400+ million to 800+ million?

Yeah..... :-D

I didnt see any of the good arguments made in the article regarding site selection that Ive seen on this site. I was hoping that somebody from here would at least attend one of these meetings and ask some of the tough questions/make the tough arguments the were made on here. There have been opportunities to corner Peter Lawson (previously at Bar Cento) and now Nance as well, so where are all the people concerned about the site selection and some of the faulty$$ reasoning behind it???

Rob_1412, I also loved Lancaster PA. Did you by any chance go through Lititz PA (or other small villages) just to the west of there...... Lititz is totally stunning. Its so strange to see how dense those little towns (Manheim, Lebanan) are out there, the houses are built right up to the road, and go right into the downtowns.

This may be true. But its important with an art museum to not confuse quantity with quality! Cincinnati does have some nice pieces, as does the Art Institute of Chicago, but also have alot of crap!

Well I think its safe to say that people are losing faith. Many people initially had high hopes and did support it, but with the continued incompetence by the county commissioners (Im choosing not to insert a list), as well as the disappointing location decison (to many), using very weak reasoning by a site selection committee that didnt include anybody with any urban planning abilities, to go with a plan that already seems will be an urban planner's fiasco, combined with an ever increasing price (that could have supported the current site) I would have to agree that if they are not using all of the best reasoning and logic for a massive decision like this, ignoring the bigger picture/not looking at the long term impact, there is probably a better use of funds, and I was a big supporter. Even though I supported the current site, it wasnt totally impossible for me to be sold on the Tower City site if I thought they had valid reasons for wanting that site and a plan for the old site.

Why do I bother...... (from above) "It didnt help that they built a new mall between Conneaut and Ashtabula (other downtown that looked even worse) complete with all the spinoff Wallmart/Super Kmart stuff" Millcreek used to be the closest mall until they built the mall between Ashtabula and Conneaut. Mr. Sparkle that is how you pronounce it.

No there really isnt much of anything left there anymore except for a few restaurants and bars. just 20 years ago it was still a thriving and active downtown. Every storefront was full. But the high paying industry is all but gone now. It didnt help that they built a new mall between Conneaut and Ashtabula (other downtown that looked even worse) complete with all the spinoff Wallmart/Super Kmart stuff. In fact this was the death knell and just sucked the remaining life that was left out of both downtown Conneaut and Ashtabula. It is truly sad, since Conneaut was a very nice town to grow up in. It does still have a pretty nice and active lakefront. Still a bit of shipping (ore boats). This is where the Hullet Ore unloaders were first used. Also there are still a few intact neighborhoods with some interesting houses. Still some awesome Italian places (stromboli everywhere!)

Supposedly it went to design review on the 14th and CPC on the 15th.

Flawed is right :wtf: Nissan Pavilion is outside of DC (considered in the DC market) Richmond, Virginia took the biggest leap in this year's rankings moving up from number 17 in 2007 to number 9 in 2008. The live concert ticket market in the area was bolstered by performances from Jimmy Buffett, Radiohead, Bruce Springsteen, Jonas Brothers and Dave Matthews Band -- the majority of which took place at Nissan Pavilion. Many fans from surrounding areas traveled to Richmond to see these bands since they did not schedule performances in Washington, D.C.

Look at this take on the N.Y. "annex" from everyones favorite Forbes! They're really disgusting.. (warning, the first few lines are brutal) Rockin' 'N Rollin' Away From Cleveland Ruthie Ackerman, 08.13.08, 10:22 PM ET Apparently, Cleveland doesn't rock enough for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. When the museum opened in 1995, it was expected to attract up to 1 million visitors a year and make over the image of the Ohio city derided by some as the “mistake by the lake.” Instead, it is the location of the hall of fame that is looking like a mistake. Cleveland just can’t draw enough tourists, so the rock museum is turning to New York City, home of Tin Pan Alley and the birthplace of many a musician’s career, to help revive the flagging brand. On Wednesday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and piano man Billy Joel announced that the museum and hall of fame will open an annex in Soho in downtown Manhattan. It is also looking to establish branches in Las Vegas and the Middle East. When Cleveland made its pitch to be the home of the planned hall of fame in 1986, it won as much due to sheer persistence as anything else. Boosters collected reams of signatures for petitions begging for the city to be considered and radio stations encouraged listeners to vote for Cleveland in a USA Today poll. Rivals included Memphis, San Francisco, New Orleans and Chicago. The hall was initially expected to cost $20 million. By the time it was done, the price tag had soared to $92 million, with $8 million coming from government grants and $34 million from state-backed bonds. Gov. George Voinovich was a heavy booster for the project, saying all of northeast Ohio would benefit from the tourist traffic the museum would generate. Fast forward 12 years: In 2007, the museum drew 451,000 visitors, down significantly from the 872,700 that visited in 1996, its first full year. Revenue has also been disappointing. In 2007, the museum took in $11.3 million, down from $15.1 million in 2004. The rock museum hopes opening new branches--following a playbook created by the likes of the Guggenheim and the Louvre--will provide more revenue, attract more philanthropy dollars and lure more visitors to the mothership in Cleveland. The 25,000-sq.-foot annex in New York will house Bruce Springsteen's 1957 Chevy and will feature a number of different exhibits, including one featuring New York City-based sites that have musical significance. The annex will open in November. “There really isn't a more fitting spot for this museum than New York, the hometown of Hall of Famers like the Velvet Underground, Paul Simon and Blondie,” Bloomberg said at a press conference Wednesday. The museum could help draw tourists to the city, create jobs and cushion the impact of downturns on Wall Street, he added. With the weakened dollar, tourists have been flocking to New York City from all over the world to see the sites and go shopping at a discount. Another annex is being planned for Las Vegas and will be more entertainment oriented, said Terry Stewart, the museum's president and CEO. Admission at the New York annex will be $26 for adults, $4 more than in Cleveland. The New York annex will be open for at least two years, longer if it proves successful. Among the planned exhibits is "New York Rocks," which will be dedicated to Big Apple artists like Joel and the Talking Heads' David Byrne. http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/08/13/rock-roll-fame-markets-face-cx_ra_0813autofacescan02.html