willyboy

Not sure what data you mean, and I suggest a visit soon. Check out the recent photo thread. People who uphold Pittsburgh as a model are doing so for reasons that are observable and verifiable. And I agree it's important to recognize gains made in Ohio, just not to the extent of false equivalency. If a comparison case really is that much better, and it's possible to for us to make similar gains with similar approaches, this seems like extremely valuable information. The answer to being sick of unfavorable comparisons is to improve. 10 years from now, the differences could be even more stark if changes are not made here. We cannot ignore our problems and we cannot ignore that some of them are not universal to Rust Belt cities. I mean, I keep wanting the Browns to move up in Power Rankings, but that's not a reasonable expectation given their record. The problem is not the columnist doing the rankings, the problem is the decisions made by the Browns front office. What data? Simple, MSA population growth (or decline). For all we hear about Pittsburgh, I'm still not sure that people are banging down the doors to relocate to the region. Cleveland obviously isn't doing that well in that category, but Cincinnati and Columbus are both doing better than the Steel City. And I have to mention this although no one wants to hear it: I don't buy into Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Denver, or Austin as models for Cleveland. There was an excellent blog post on the Urbanophile a year or two back about this issue, but the crux of it has to do with significant differences in history and demographics, that latter being a hugely divisive issue in metros like Cleveland, Detroit, and a few other Midwestern/Northern cities. I think an argument can be made that because of demographics, in a lot of ways Cleveland is viewed differently by state and regional leaders (who aren't residents of the city proper) than those cities mentioned above. I also think that residents themselves may be less charitable or sympathetic towards other residents because of the racial and economic differences. I'm certainly seeing and hearing some of this divide in discussions by residents about the upcoming CMSD levy. There may be policy divisions in these "model" cities, but I'd be shocked if they cut anywhere nearly as deeply along demographic divides as you'll find in this region. Just my opinion, though, but this is only a small sliver of the unique challenge that Cleveland faces that are different from challenges faced by those cities. You cant just pick one thing and say it isn't true. Things like regional indicators, job and income growth and just today a listing on educational attainment, which puts Pittsburgh well above Cleveland or Cincinnati.

I'm sick of hearing all of these cop-out arguments in an attempt to trump Ohio Cities (especially from Clevelanders) over Pittsburgh. Just give Pittsburgh some credit for God's sake. None of the roads go in a logical direction? That's due to topography and I've heard many people admit that cities like Pittsburgh are much more picturesque and make for a more interesting urban environment due to site-constraints or topography. With those hills and illogical direction of roads, you also get increased density of the built environment and better preservation of green space where it naturally exists. Anyway, my basic point is that there seems to be an extreme bias/skew towards Ohio Cities (especially Cleveland, as this forum is dominated by Clevelanders) preventing you all from appreciating other nearby places. The whole hillbilly thing really irks me. I know some hillbillies that are actually incredibly smart and resourceful, especially when it comes to practical trade-skills, which I doubt the majority of your typical yuppie neighbors possess. They're laid-back, friendly people who are always welcoming and willing to lend a helping hand to their neighbors because in a true hillbilly community--economically distressed and what-have-you, you really have to be co-dependent and work together. That's coming from my personal experience. Another thing I don't understand is why I hear statements about Cleveland being akin to New England, which to me has connotations of being some kind of blue-blood playground or something but then again, it's supposedly a city that takes pride in its blue-collar roots. I suppose it just depends on what you need to argue for on any given day to trump your city over the next. :-o I haven't been to Pittsburgh since 1992 (or somewhere around then, I'm not keeping track because I don't care), but I'm sure it's a wonderful city. I just think that most people are just sick of hearing about how much better it is than Ohio's major cities because quite frankly the data does not really support the argument. There are a lot of anecdotes about how Pittsburgh has turned things around, but the same can be said about the 3Cs, too. The difference is that Pittsburgh has achieved some sort of an urban cult status that has led some outsiders to assume that it's a model for other Great Lakes/Rust Belt cities. Whether or not that's really the case is up for debate, but I think we just want some fair recognition for what's going on in our towns. Well I agree that it had become a media darling and whether that has been merited or not has been up to some debate. It really wasn’t long ago at all that they were looking to Cleveland to see what they were doing, wanted to know how they were doing things. Certainly they hit more of a bottom initially than the 3-Cs did, forcing it to look to the future and adapt or die. They have several advantages which have been talked about here such as some bigger schools that they learned to harness a bit earlier than N-East Ohio was thinking quite in these terms. That combined with stronger leadership, some luck (being on the receiving end of some large corporate mergers (ones that Cleveland was on the losing end of), throw in some winning sports teams and lots of media love and they have managed to sustain a positive vibe that has included some nice growth which has also managed to keep more college degrees in the area. So sure there is a degree of manufactured positive press that has occurred over Pittsburgh, and some of that may have even resulted in some of the sustained feel good/positive things coming out of there, but the numbers are indicating that something good is happening there to a degree that it is not yet happening in Ohio.

Welp, that's it. If that's the criteria for most retailers then Cleveland is screwed. Goodnight everyone. And with that all that will be attracted to the new strip center the neighborhood development corp is proposing for that spot is a Dollar General, which I beleive they think would be an improvement over what is there now. I say it will be the deciding factor of the future of this neighborhood, which should be a premier neighborhood btw. If they dont hold out for something better, like what was previously planned for the site, they will be sorry.

Also, that was the Cleveland Clinic sports medicine center that was loosely pitched and posted on Urban Ohio, along with these same pictures.

No should be something like 55 million. I think they left off a 5.

You certainly have the Ghetto-ization of Northern Ohio down. Thus my non-funny joke that for every neighborhood that sees postive change in Cleveland 3 more go downhill (become ghetto's). Unfortunately this now also seems to apply to the majority of suburbs there (so maybe it should be 1 to 5 ratio..?) Although Ive recently returned to the area part time and super happy to be on my way back, this much is so blatently obvious just about everywhere. Thats what happens when all housing becomes affordable (and that usual barrior to neighborhood ghetto-ization has been lifted (attributed to too may factors to list))

Dont forget this also applies to the Warehouse district parking lots, we cant have too much density there......

Agreed. He has something people seem to like but seems to lack a good business sense. The last bought which involved downtown and Shaker Square left him with a number of enemies. I cant see him coming back. Sad about Nexus. Never been, but I liked what they were doing, and seemed like a place you could just hang out. Don't forget Red will be coming to Prospect.

I just look at it as Cleveland doesnt often get its fair share of federal funding, so Im always looking for ways to ease the local burden so there can be more $$$ for other projects. True it isnt always worth the hoops that you have to jump through as well as the added time thit it usually adds to a project if therre are viable alternatives.

Tiger funds are not the only Fed funds that could contribute to this project.

Ive been already clearing up many misconceptions. Its being painted as a "470% increase in an already overtaxed region", but that is on top of almost nothing. The port levy would increase taxes from $3.50 to $20.00 for every 100,000 in assessed value, but keep in mind this is assessed value and most people in Cuyahoga county have an assessed value well below $100,000. So the majority of people would see an increase of $5 to $10 a year (I think a small price to pay). I wonder where in the F the city would come up with 26 million!!! They need to keep trying for Fed funds for this though.. With the potential sources of match the chances of getting a chunk of Fed $$$ would be much better.

I dont think Ive ever really been back there to see them.. Maybe this next phase will be better. The other place where they are supposed to be building upscale apartments is on yet another former golf course, but Im not really familiar with that spot (near/SOM Center)

The village area is actually where they are supposed to be building another phase...

There are already several new luxary apartment buildings in the owrks in the Beachwood area, I dont know that another could be justified right now. I think he was talking about Mayfield Country Club though.

Great pictures!! Love the birch groves and most every thing else including that Mitchells is open, not so much that their trash is on the ground though. Also the new Case signage seems to have a great presence.

Its not necessarily that they don't have the money, but with the Lakefront Parks there is so much deferred maintenance that it would be a very bad deal to take as is and expect them to make the proper investments necessary to bring them up to par. But yeah I think when you add in the flats projects, Acacia and the Lakefront they would certainly be spreading themselves pretty thin without some sort of infusion or levy for an increase in funds. Maybe the Conservation Fund will throw in some start up funds...

This would be an awesome outcome. I wonder if they would keep all or at least some portion of the golf course (isnt this considered a good course?). The club house looks like its beautiful and fairly new. I may be most happy because its so not what the mindless mayor would have wanted. This should force him to think harder, or outside of the box even (or what would seem outside of the box for a mayor that thinks greenfield development and cannibalization is the only way to increase future revenue sources).

Thats a funny one.... Best how..????? Very random stuff that they mention like with Cincinnati they mention the orchestra and then Cleveland they dont..??!!! I mean Cincinnati has a good orchestra, one that has actually improved the past few years, but Cleveland has a great and legendary orchestra.. I guess maybe that is already known?

Yeah Channel 5 has been screwing up tons of things like that.

Agreed gotribe. And the market has been in Beechwood mainly because it hasnt yet existed downtown (and downtown is only fairly recently a succesful residential enclave), not necessarily because thats where everyone that can afford it wants to be. Yes pro-athletes are just an example, and many of them live in Avon Lake (but do you really think a single guy wants to live there?). Congrats to Grady for venturing into Ohio City, but it isnt common, due to the lack of options. Downtown needs variety and this includes new higher priced housing. MTS is right here as well. People there need to get over how cheap it is to live, this isnt at all out of the norm for even less desireable places or neighborhoods. Not sure the the shortage of housing for middle class professionals has anything to do with this project... That merely opens up even more possibilities for housing conversions in other areas. Sounds like a win win to me... The precedent of pricier housing failing sowntown is also inaccurate. You must be referring to for-sale, which is a different market whcih happened at a different time.

There is a market for these and that rent range. Not a problem.

So I guess it wont be winter after all, but should be worth the wait. Mitchell's Ice Cream move to Ohio City expected in spring of 2013 Mitchell's Ice Cream will move its production facilities into Ohio City by this spring, said Mike Mitchell, partner with his brother Pete in the local seven-store company. Hmm, this is interesting. Uptown?? Mitchell also announced that he expects his new University Circle store will open by December. http://www.cleveland.com/taste/index.ssf/2012/09/mitchells_ice_cream_move_to_oh.html

But In Sundusky's case I guess I dont understand with the draw of the lake and Cedar Point (which is a huge draw) why it isnt a beach town that people flock to, stay at and spend money/ shop etc. like most states have (like Saugatuck or Rehoboth) .. I would think that place could be Sandusky. I was in Rehoboth Beach Delaware recently and it seems to be a mecca of summer vacationers, shopping and dining. The people are mainly educated, yet no real industry there, but it is driving distance to affluent DC, as well as Baltimore and Philly. Where is the Ohio version of this? (I guess there are the Islands, but...)

*Funny Rustbelter, I was typing my response regarding Ashtabula county before you posted yours. I think proximity to a large urban area has alot to do with the outcome of many of these towns as well as how reliant they were on manufacturing. It seems like small towns I go to in upstate NY and PA get more $$$ and visitors and people living from NY-city and Philly that help to keep them intact and somewhat "vibrant". I guess some of these places were never really built on manufacturing (but some were), as many in Ohio were. I know Im always surprised by the lack of functional/upscale small towns around Cleveland (ones that have specialty shops, antique stores and bistros lining main street), so I dont know if this is also indicative of the decline of the larger manufacturing urban centers like Cleveland and Youngstown. Being from Ashtabula County where all of the commerce and money in the towns came from the one time abundance of well paying manufacturing jobs are now all gone. The jobs that are there now are mainly low paying manufacturing in comparison. Aside from that I dont understand some of the development patterns that have kept other states downtowns more intact than I have seen in Ohio. I mean I have seen the argument about topography in PA, and that may have somthing to do with it there. I know even when they built a mall in Ashtabula County It was expected to be the death knell for most of the remaining downtown retail there, but then the mall also ended up dying, and now I dont even go back because it is just too depressing.

This almost falls under "duh", for two reasons: Yeah this reminds me of another headline I saw this morning but didnt have the patience to read because it was likely going to be another "Duh". Survey: Adults with low incomes could be at risk health-wise (Medina Gazette says study finds that low-income adults often don't have health insurance.) Sort of like the many studies indicating that blacks are less likely to get approved for a mortgage or are going to pay higher rates.........