willyboy

Well recently there was a rumor that the Barley House guy is now going after the Dragonfly space so maybe this is something else and "Town Hall" will be there? Well its all very rumor-y, but I believe that this is still the Town-Hall place (although doesnt sound like what Sam M. was so concerned about). Apparently the Garage and Dragonfly spaces were snapped up quickly, but they are denying that it is by the Barley House people. Im sure whatever is true they are being "careful" since they wont want to raise too many concerns. I think we will find out very soon though.

Yeah I believe so as well (sort of like the Terminal Tower). Also they need to replace most of the lights at the top and elsewhere on the Wyndham Hotel.

Didnt they sort-of already do that? I remember a few years ago when there were some scattered galleries/studios in there.

I think its actually the building at E. 12th and Euclid across from Wyndham. The old McDonald Investment building will be the new AmTrust Financial Services Building.

My prediction is that things will look even worse next census for the city of Cleveland itself and most inner subs. (that is if you agree that more poverty and even lower population is worse). Because the few bright spots as far as neighborhoods go likely wont make up for the continued loss of the remaining mid-class. Otherwise many other things are indeed looking up.

Just in time for....... Winter.. perfect :|

The 4 listed are all said to be part of the first phase, althought that would make the first phase map wrong, since its only showing the clunky office building and hotel as the first phase and not the outlots that will be Toby Keiths etc....

Agreed.

Funny you should ask. I remember reading about this place about a year ago and wondered what happened, and then the other day in the PD this: BACK ON TRACK IN LAKEWOOD . . . Readers have been asking: Whatever happened to plans for a new burger spot in the Detroit Avenue and Warren Road area of Lakewood? You'll recall that last summer, restaurateur Ed Cerino -- a scion of the famed Carrie Cerino's family -- announced he and his son, Eddie Cerino, would be opening Eddie 'n' Eddie Burgers, Bourbon and Apple Pie in that neighborhood. "After a frustrating five-month halt to construction," writes the restaurateur in an email, "we are finally back under construction in Lakewood." The restaurant is on schedule to open in July, Cerino adds. He'll continue to run the house at his perennially hopping Eddie's Pizzeria Cerino in Seven Hills. http://www.cleveland.com/taste/index.ssf/2012/04/grandma_helens_kitchen_in_parm.html

But also there's alot more behind the scenes, business creation, capital and expansion initiatives that were not really prevalent before. these are the things that will set the tone for the future economy and businesses that will call Cleveland home.

What is your definition of "amazing"? I bet it different than mine! LOL Lets hope so. MTS's place-below (his definition of amazing) :wave:

Yeah exactly. I mean it was referencing and talking about an article from 2010....

Yes Philadelphia has fallen pretty far, as has New York. Los Angeles is now considered to be in the ranks of the biggies, where Cleveland of course maintains its presense. Depending on the list, Cleveland had typically been #3 in the world, by world or European standards (but best in the US), but then often only number 2 (behind Chicago) in the U.S. by U.S. standards. Mainly because Cleveland is the most European and precise US orchestra. Where Chicago is more typically more potent and powerful.

Except your talking about a whole building instead of a house. Therefore much harder to maintain a high standard. Hasnt it been mentioned that the subsidized elderly housing downtown near playhouse square is full of problems due to "relatives" of the residents?

The Higbee looks fabulous with the lighting!

I know all that lol. Trust me, I'm a retail whore! :wink2: Yes we know :roll:

I believe it was financed by Dawes Tomes Mousley Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank Funny. We actually thought the same about Penzy's Spices, but there seem to be several now, so must be doing ok... * I have not actually been in one yet.

No, it does (sorry there are only a few rare circumstances where it doesnt (and I can say this because that is what I do for a living)). I was just looking at it wrong.

Most of this info was posted previously. But its seems hard to believe that crime in Cudell and West Blvd had gone down. Most of what I think of the Cudell area has actually seemd to have gotten pretty bad, unless they have just merely bottomed out and gotten less bad that is.

Strange things going on in barland indeed.

"Based on census numbers (assuming migration is the same in the next decade as it was the last), the model would suggest the best places to spend dollars on living space are downtown, University Circle, and to a lesser degree the Near West and Near East neighborhoods and then some "edge" neighborhoods like Kamm's and Riverside." Thats a somber outlook indeed. I can only hope that making those assumptions will be wrong, and things will finally stabilize and maybe even start to grow. I think the correct building blocks are in place now and we should see that happening. After all we are only supposed to be a few years behind Pittsburgh* (but on the same path) now. *According to Baiju R. Shah of Bio-Enterprise. By the way had something similar at CSU. Ned Hill? Brilliant guy.. .

Hey there willyboy. I think what you're referring to is when i said the Flats were still "too rough around the edges" for me to live there. When I wrote that I strictly meant "rough" in the sense as in "really ugly" looking. As for the crime, I know it happens but I'm personally not dissuaded from going to any of our cool neighborhoods because of it. I'm frequently at Beachland (collinwood), Happy Dog (detroit-shoreway), Tremont, Downtown or Steve's Lunch (ghost town looking area of Lorain) at 3am. Overall I feel pretty safe. So I guess I was talking more about outsiders (visitors, non-local investors, suburb-types, etc.) and their perceptions rather than my own. I think you had mentioned recently with Battery Park, but in regard to the clubs, I thought you mentioned no longer frequenting the concert club near w116 and Detroit because it had become so dangerous with robberies etc..

Cleve, I think you are right on with your assesments. We have/had been looking to return to the area, but frankly have been having a hard time in diciding where we would/could live there without the fear of things around us decling further. Its just that we have been in DC for long enough that we have been through the bad here, back when many of the neighborhoods mentioned above seemed like much nicer more liveable areas, but then experienced the positive transition and incredible transformation that has occured in DC, the likes that Cleveland could never see, it is a bit hard to decide whether we are willing to buy a really nice house in the HTS there and live well, but in what would be an "island" in a sense, or stay in DC where things keep getting better and more functional, but more expensive all the same, where we could never aford to live like we could there. Frankly, we have been through so much bad in DC, through the transition that I dont know that we want to experience all those things again. So with all the unknowns for the inner rings there concern us a bit. We are not the young chickens we were back then.

But SurfOhio, whether perception or reality, even you have mentioned that many of these areas are still to rough aorund the edges for you, and have stated your displeasure of the amount of crime that certain areas (or certain concert clubs), have seen in the not so distant past, so in many cases there really is crime occuring that is creating the negative perception.

I've been thinking about this a lot. Fascinating urban nerdery! :) It's kind of the opposite of our Cleveland Neighborhoods in 2016 thread ... What neighborhoods are most at threat for a backslide. My guess is that if we don't see population gains in the under-40 market in the next decade, you're right. I'd be most worried if I was a rental property owner in the Heights or Lakewood ... Or potentially edge city neighborhoods like Old Brooklyn, West Park or Edgewater/Cudell. At the same time, I'm still hearing about plenty of people moving out of the city to Lakewood. I've also seen 20-somethings moving from places like Asiatown, Tremont and Shaker Square moving to Cleveland Heights and buying a house, courtesy of the city getting hit relatively hard by the foreclosure crisis. The opening of ownership opportunities for younger people in the inner ring is one thing that may stabilize these cities, although not necessarily the rental properties. I also think that as rents rise in places like downtown, Ohio City and University Circle, we'll see people self-selecting into cheaper rental markets; the big question for me is whether those rental markets will be places like Asiatown or Slavic Village or whether they'll be places like Cedar Fairmount and the Gold Coast. Ive been doing alot of work in this area, and as I keep mentioning, pretty much all of the previously stable parts of the city or Cleveland (such as old brooklyn, west park and Edgewater/Cudell have been in decline and seen subsequent increases in crime. Same with Lakewood and Cleveland Heights as a whole, but because both of these areas still have more expensive and desirable housing, it has been somewhat confined to certain areas of those cities. It does tend to go hand in hand with the changing demographics that these areas have been seen. Also for the most part these areas have seen a big increase in rental housing, in part due to middle class or even elderly residents wanting to get out and not being able to get their investment out of the property, but also due to the foreclosure crisis, where properties may have been bought up just for rental purposes, and often section 8, just to reap some kind of return. So without a big improvement in the local economy, several quarters of job gains, and a change in the perception of these areas, any improvement in one area only seems to result in the tradeoff of a decline in another. That's why I have been so adamant about maintaining the stable areas (and at least making an effort to stabilize/prevent further flight) because under the circumstances of no/negative population growth and general cheap housing in the region, it would tak along time for those areas to come back. Same with Cleve Hts and Lkwd.. Schools and crime have to be kept in check top prevent a mass exodus. Tom Bier at Cleveland State has done alot of work in this area and has predicted most of what has already happened. His latest report predicts more of the same and not very good predictions for Cuyahoga County if massive amounts of redevelopment doesn't take place in the meantime. Other studies have noted a bright side with all the interest in downtown living, and radiating interest in surrounding areas, but its really only a drop in the bucket, and typically limited to childless people.