willyboy

Perhaps you should just look at the news posting from recent days. Is this acceptable to you? Otherwise, the stats were already given showing various years for comparison previously in the thread, and talked about in detail (well for thoose that wanted to acknowledge). Yeah, increasess everywhere (on the West side) except Ohio City and Tremont. Detroit Shoreway stabilized. About the same to only slightly worse in Clark Fulton.

Yup

I thought this seemed kind of silly.... Like you would just come up with 2 random initials for no reason. Symon hasn't even nailed down what the S&P in the new restaurant's title stands for. "It can be anything you want," he said. "Salt and pepper, Symon and [business partner Doug] Petkovic, sausage and pierogi. I hadn't really got that far yet."

So he is calling it a "Cleveland Themed" restaurant. Michael Symon to open new Cleveland-themed restaurant Published: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 2:23 PM Updated: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 3:05 PM By Michael Heaton, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer "I was fooling around on Facebook and it kind of went crazy," said celebrity chef Michael Symon of his announcement of a new Cleveland-themed restaurant. Symon asked his followers on the social-media site to share their thoughts on a new concept he'd been pondering, dubbed the S&P Kitchen, Bar and Smokehouse. It quickly gathered more than 400 comments. http://www.cleveland.com/taste/index.ssf/2011/12/michael_symon_to_open_new_clev.html

Ha ha, you made me smile MTS. Happy Holidays!

When? Where? We have folks that live in their buildings. I'm not trying to be difficult, but show me so I can better understand your point of view. This really isnt the place for that, plus there are ongoing issues that really shouldnt be specified on here. But let me put it this way, I can pretty much gaurantee you, you wouldnt want them touching anything in your unit or building MTS. I will just be happy for the investment and the new residents it will bring downtown. Maybe you can direct your energy into backing up/finding the rental rates required for outlet stores as opposed to dollar stores (Tower City thread).... :evil:

Yes!

It was a great project, but they only did an ok job with it.

What is really wrong with K&D? I dont know enough about them to think they are bad considering people are lining up to get into their buildings. Also, who else has stepped up to build more residential buildings in Downtown. Has K&D construction quality and building management improved over time? ETA: I thought this was a positive sign of great things to come in the area. The K&D issues have been well established on this site. As far as have they improved... I think they have been learning things the hard way, and have been getting better at cutting corners. The people lining up thing speaks more about the pent up demand for residential downtown than their product. Dont get me wrong this is super exciting, and I'm glad someone is stepping up (even if its them), I just wish others would come to the table (which should be happening soon), and really hope that K&D doesnt get the Bruer building. That one requires someone with real vision.

I dont think anybody guessed this. Good news, but too bad its K and D. PlayhouseSquare to sell downtown Cleveland office building to the K&D Group for apartments Published: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 12:30 PM Updated: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 12:35 PM By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A private developer plans to convert a PlayhouseSquare office building into 102 apartments, capturing explosive rental demand and bringing the first residential project to the heart of Cleveland's theater district. PlayhouseSquare has agreed to sell the Hanna Building Annex, on East 14th Street, to the K&D Group of Willoughby http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/12/playhousesquare_to_sell_downto.html

Huh, I didnt realize Bar Symon was an epic fail... I just thought the location was bad.

Yeah I kinda think Clark Fulton has bottomed out. That was pretty much a pit by the time I left, it has merely spread to much of the rest of the west side. R&R that was sortof my point earlier (that it has spread to Lakewood although not too late there); and that you know its gotten bad when even the gays are fleeing their fabulous homes (when they are typically considered the troopers and the ingredient needed for postive change). I know of a number of people and couples in the Edgewater area that have left. Either the region all together or to moved to Westlake (eeks). Clevelands comment, "North of Lake is pretty safe", which is somewhat true, but also pretty sad since there is only 1 street north of Lake (and this is an area on the Lake, which should retain its value and appeal), which is Edgewater (and out of reach of the majority of people). Going back to Peabody's comment, while Im sure San Diego must have some bad neighborhoods, the point is really that there are not many (any) in Cleveland any more that you can do any of these things. I would have thought Edgewater certainly would be one of them, but there has been plenty going on on Edgewater (which includes a good amount of homes that have had all of the copper removed during the night, as well as some random hold ups). So even the attitude there has been changing.

I know some of you will say this is no big deal (nothing to be concerned about) and there are typically some of these that happen anyway, but here is yet another shooting on the west side. Hope "Derone" is ok. Cleveland man shot at West 130th Street and Bellaire Road Published: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 7:24 AM Updated: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 7:57 AM By Donna J. Miller, Plain Dealer reporter CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A 24-year-old man was shot Wednesday near West 130th Street and Bellaire Road. Police and paramedics were called at 6:40 p.m. by employees of the Walgreens there. The victim, Derone Robinson, of West 121st Street, ran into the store for help after he was shot in the legs. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/12/man_shot_at_west_130th_street.html

I wanted to mention that I ate at some places I had not yet tried when back over Christmas. Curious about others experiences. Chinato.... Extensive menu that required a bit of expaining, but everything very good. 2 thumbs up. Pura Vida for lunch. Also 2 thumbs up, very good (and Christmas Ale on tap, as well as a lovely, wrapped christmasn cookie surprise to go (Also R@R they have "crispy pig ears" on the menu) Crop. Fabulous space. Very good drinks. Good appetizers. Ok food. Same issue I had the couple of other times I tried in the Warehouse District. There is just too much going on with his food. Too many flavors. Nothing simple with that guy. Bon bon for breakfast. Everything very tasty and adorable addition to the Market District.

Hey, I never said that I didn't eat farm animals (I do like my meat), just that I cant be reminded what Im eating. We've all been desensitized to regular meat things like hamburger or a regular steak, but when its starts to become untypical things and certainly a face, it starts to make me think too much about it. I do try to stay away from big agra for sure. Its good your teaching your son those things as well.

Im just too much of an animal lover, and love farm animals. Therefore eating anything that personalizes it (like a face) would likely be out of the question for me. Hey Ive had marrow! Its kinda cool though that theres such a return to the "use every part" mentality that our ancestors had.

Didnt realize Sawyer was doing that, although I shouldnt be surprised, and thats certainly the trend lately. I know theyve always had the heads on display at the West Side Market, I just usually try to avoid seeing them. I know I should be more adventurous with my food, but just not sure I can go there.

Thats a crazy menu and seems to be a tribute to Clevelands heritage (although I can do without the pig head). Huh, I was hoping he would re-visit the Avon Lake restaurant concept somewhere else, I wonder if this is basically that, although this seems just a bit different yet.

This was on a real-estate board that I read. Again I dont know much about South Euclid... Where are the best areas in south euclid and cleveland hts for under 100,000 with regards to resell value and decent neighborhoods? There is really no good area in South Euclid; I am a real estate investor in the Heights for 4 years now. Under 100K in the Heights; try the streets running South toward Shaker starting at Dellwood, past the library, down to Monmouth. Also, Dartmoor to Shaker, going East toward Taylor Rd. These tend to be small family homes and lots of first timers. Good Luck; if you need more advice, feel free to ask me!

R@R I remember you mentioning some of those things previously. That is about when I left Cleveland and I know Lakewood has seen a semi-considerable increase in crime since that time (although still reletively safe as a whole), and by all accounts crimes on the Cleveland side have become more common and brazen. When I lived there I only remember needing to be cautious around Detroit (with only things like car breakins happening further north as well as an occasional robbery). But with the recent murder on Lake and some of the crazy stuff Ive been hearing from long time business owners as well as friends and family still in the area, there is reason for concern and an increase in uneasiness compared to 15 years ago. I know that the business owners all say it is become considerably more dangerous around Clifton at night, and the homeowners I know all say the same thing. Even family members on Edgewater all indicate this (they say several of their neighbors have moved west as a result). Certainly demographics have been changing, so I just hope with its proximity to the lake that the area doesnt fall any further.

I dont think anybody commented on South Euclid (but thought it was faily stable, but likely some pressures). I dont know much about it, but will try to look at my stats and projections when I have a minute.

Well they talked about concentrating law enforcment, patrols and even cameras in trouble areas and newly troubled areas that you dont want to become troubled areas in hopes of nipping it in the bud. But ultimately with budget cuts and such wasnt followed through with. For example the robberies that were happening along Detroit in Cleveland, east of 117th (not too far back a result of a rough population residing south of Detroit), ended up being/pretty much left unabated and spread over to Clifton, Lake and even Edgewater (not to mention Lakewood), which would have been unheard of when I lived there. The shooting issue has alot to do with the terrible and destructive "culture" that has become so prevalent, but also many of these west side areas have a huge drug culture (thus the lack of rational behavior), and that is much what some of the more crazy crimes along areas such as Lake Avenue have bee a result of.

Agree, but also in the process reel in the traditional stable neighborhoods that have been seeing this decline. Edgewater is a prime example. I know everyone cheers the new residents that the "Up and coming" areas are getting, but if you saw the concurrent declines and loss of the important middle class population in neighborhoods like Edgewater (mostly to Westlake), it would still indicate a net loss of middle class population. Yes the city has to do everything in its power to reverse this negative progression, since, again, once you get to a certain threshold, it is extremely difficult to reverse. .

Well, but with such a spread of rental housing and section 8, you really do want to watch the area or community you are investing in.. With so many rental and even section 8 options out there now, why would a good tenant rent in an area that is falling and unstable or even dangerous and with bad schools (or in the process of declining) if they there are better options available (Theres planty in Lakewood, Cleve. Hts. etc....). I think thats way more of an issue there than most people realize.

As a westsider I would say this area is good for one or two of these per year. I would still not compare the west side to the east side. Just read the metro section...i would say 4 to 1 east side to west side violent crimes. Im not comparing the west side to the east side... Im saying the spread of crime on the west side is to an extent the result of a shift of some of the population from the east side to the west side ((since I do this sort of tracking for a living) and with many of these crimes and murders, it has been a result of the influx of east side blacks to the traditionally non black neighborhoods of the West side) in some cases just a spreading of the population that was just more confined previously. Thus the increase in murders in the traditional-"safe" west side neighborhoods and the decrease in some of the traditional "non-safe east side neighborhoods. I previously gave all the stats showing these increases.