willyboy

Nice work punchin' Pat! Everybody who has an argument please email Jennifer or put in a call if you feel strongly enough... They have the power to oppose this demolition, and make them go back to the drawing board to look at other options.. (or at least with the conditions that other options wouldnt be feasable).

Looks like Rosetta finished up the top of the old National City building. I knew they were adding a top floor, but I didnt realize it would come over top of where the Marons live. I mean those red beams have been there for quite some time (were evident in pictues from 2006), so I didnt know what they were initially for. Got to be a Kick@$$ space for their offices.

djunior, I hear what your saying... I kindof feel the same way. I was hoping to move back, but I have been a bit wishy washy about the thought this past year. I would imagine its even more frustrating to be there and witness the missed opportunities and lack of leadership than it is from another city. Thanks skorasaurus, I really wasnt dissin you, and Im glad you went and were able to report back. But I was a little frustrated that there were not more people there asking additional challenging questions at least, and a bit frustrated that only 3 people were there critical of the plan. For all the people on here that seem to dislike the plan, and the great input/insight (and convincing arguments) I have read on this board, I really thought there would have been more opposition at the actual meeting. Its not too late to contnue to contact people on the Landmarks Commission. Do people know contacts for any of the others? We had a couple of emails posted for the Chair Jennifer Coleman. I used to know Laura pretty well but I have lost touch.. Cleveland Landmarks Commission: Laura Bala Anthony Brancatelli, City Council Robert N. Brown, Director of City Planning Thomas Coffey Jennifer Coleman, Chair Allan Dreyer Bill Mason Michael Rastatter, Jr. John Torres Robert Vilkas, Manager of Architecture and Site Development

An article from the PD about the CPC approving the "Welcome Center" Where do I start.... everything I have seen from the mayor on this shows the lack of leadership... yet his below statement would be totally true given the plan that Rock gaming put forth. Quite the visionaire and leader he is. "Ken Silliman, chief of staff for Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson, expressed the mayor's support for the project at the meeting. Silliman said the administration understood the importance of historic preservation, but added the Columbia building needs to go for the project to move forward." Im guessing by the last name that this may be a certain someone that has posted about the meeting on UO. Valid question, but was that really the only question/objection to this plan at the meeting? Outside of the traffic study there really were no challenging questions asked here? Whatever. "Will Skora, a member of the audience, told the commission it should not approve the plan before seeing a yet-to-be-finished traffic study that will examine how the increase in cars will impact pedestrians around the valet area." Cleveland Planning Commission approves welcome center complex for casino Published: Saturday, May 21, 2011, 5:20 AM Updated: Saturday, May 21, 2011, 9:06 AM By Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer Marcus Glover, general manager of the Higbee casino, explained the parking plan must wow casino customers, providing an initial impression that says, "I'm here. I've arrived." "You want to be able to pull in and get out with convenience and ease," said Glover, who works for Caesars Entertainment Corp., which is developing the Higbee casino with Dan Gilbert's company, Rock Gaming LLC. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/cleveland_planning_commissions.html

Heres Mr. Litts input: Rock Gaming changes course on Cleveland casino by asking for an overhead walkway and demolition of the Columbia BuildingPublished: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 10:45 PM Updated: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 10:46 PM By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio — Instead of a royal flush, it feels like a royal switcheroo. Rock Gaming LLC, the developer of the new Cleveland casino, unveiled plans in February showing that it intended to do a gentle and respectful job of turning the historic downtown Higbee Building, once a legendary department store, into its Phase I casino. Now, just a few months later, the company has changed course in significant ways. http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2011/05/post_5.html

No. That has only been mentioned from people that hope to save the building, and figure a Mcdonalds in the space is better than a tear down for a McDonalds. There has been no official proposal thus far, But the Sloan Ave. McD. does want to move somewhere on Detroit, and if they want this spot they will most certainly tear down the building. This recent article makes it sound too easy: Lakewood officials have yet to see proposal from McDonald's for Detroit Theatre property Published: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 5:26 PM Updated: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 5:32 PM Mayor Mike Summers outlined a formal process that would occur if intentions to redevelop the Detroit Theatre site become official. That would start with a zoning review, conducted to determine if the proposal fits with the city’s code. “It does,” said Summers, referring to the potential McDonald’s development. He also noted that the city is obligated to be consistent in such instances, meaning the city can’t be selective with regard to allowing one business that fits the code without allowing another that also fits. After that, the proposal would undergo architecture and design review. Summers said that while it would be difficult to stop anything at that point, the city can exert influence over aspects including aesthetic design, light, noise and traffic flow. http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/05/lakewood_officials_have_yet_to.html

The design review and planning Commission agendas are out. Cimperman is certainly going to make sure that his buddy's get everything they want. There seems to be quite a bit of confidence that everything will be approved since they have details on signage and landscaping plan including the types of trees. MANDATORY REFERRALS 2.Ordinance No. 648-11 (Ward 3/Cimperman): Authorizing the Commissioner of Purchases and Supplies to sell City-owned property no longer needed for public use located at 2151 Ontario Street to Rock Ohio Caesars Gateway LLC, or its designee, for the purposes of facilitating the development of Phase 1 of Horseshoe Casino Cleveland, to be located in the nearby Higbee Building. 3.Resolutions of Intent to Vacate (to be introduced) (Ward 3/Cimperman): In and around the vicinity of Ontario St., Prospect Ave., East 2nd Street, East 1st Street and High St. pursuant to the Welcome Center project. DESIGN REVIEW 1.DF 2011-012: 2105 Ontario Street, Welcome Center, Addition to Gateway North Garage, Overhead Building Connector, etc., Ward 3; Project Representatives: Craig Wasserman, KA, Inc., Architects; Ellsworth Grimsley Rock Ohio Caesars Cleveland, LLC http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/05202011/index.php Also, lots more pictures.

No wait, Hts121 only thinks that we base things on stuff we pull out of our a$$@s

Again, thank you! My feelings exactly. Well put! See I told you most people here "get it"

KJP's plan included an underground linkage (under Prospect) to the casino. I don't support to notion that the casino patrons shouldn't have an enclosed walkway to the casino (which is the benefit they are seeking), but I also like the idea of an underground linkage better. Well that linkage is already there... So just expand Gateway to the North and South and build a cool pedestrian bridge to the other side of Ontario (as mentioned above), what is being achieved by having a garage spanning Ontario? That would seem a more acceptable area for a Pedestrian bridge, and you wouldnt be scarring a historic building or creating an extremly awkward diagonal bridge. But with that, why wouldnt you just utilize the garage that they would be building and expanding on at Tower City for the linkage, but again this still doesnt achieve what they want to do with the Prospect/Ontario corner and wanting a lounge welcome center w/quick access to the casino. Also, see the Cleveland Coalitions ideas for parking and underground linkage.

One of the reasons I kind of like KJP's idea of extending the parking garage over Ontario is that it gives cars a path over Ontario so they can enter the street heading South toward to highway (likely direction of most traffic leaving the casino). This could eliminate a lot of the congestion (and inherent pedestrian unfriendliness) caused by cars attempting to make that left turn onto Ontario. Oh, and because the idea eliminates the pedestrian bridge stabbing the Higbee Building in the face... Except that could be achieved by parking in the existing garage/new garge that would go under the new casino... And if your looking for ways to get around the corner of Ontario/Prospect issue, anything besides that doesnt have the direct access they are looking for... Are you kidding about the bridge? Youd rather have a tunnel on Ontario entering downtown, and not provide the benifit that they are seeking..?

How about suggesting some talking points? Factual support? Personally, I totally understand the 'preservation' aspect of this argument. I also would 'hope' that some developer would look favorably upon the Columbia for re-development. But I have never heard even a whisper on that possibility. Has there ever been any engineering studies on the current state of the building and what type of investment would be needed to re-purpose it? Ill try to later, but I think most on here "get it". Also, thats what I meant in past posts by "they" (the city, the Landmarks Commission) should be seeking more information. For an issue like this it should be within their scope of responsibility to know why it isnt viable to keep this building (at the very least considering its a landmark), in order to make an educated decision. They should be asking; has the Casino company even looked at other options (that would keep the Columbia building (it really should be more about the casino folks demonstrating why the Columbia building is beyond its useful life as a building)). They should at least have to demonstrate that they looked at other scenarios and why they determined this is the only option (apparently no questions have been asked, they just took things as presented). Also, it is pretty common nowadays to construct a deal..... Possibly one that could include the city (Gateway) garage in exchange for keeping the Columbia Building and having Gilbert redevelop for some specified purpose (look at the Nationwide deal in Columbus for a good example of how such deals can benefit both sides). There have been several groups that have propoosed intersting and far better ideas as far as urban design and concepts go. They should be part of this planning process or at least visible for these hearings and to offer input. If Gilbert claims to be about doing things the best way for the city, that means being sensitive to at least some basic planning principles, so I think the city needs to have some further dialog with him (I think he means well, but doesnt necessarily understand the impact of some of his ideas)

The Landmarks Commission is a bit tough, since they are not employees of the city (the LMC only lists their names), then its basically up to you to investigate how to contact each person. For Jennifer, she does have a contact email and Twitter page on her CityProwl site, and if anyone should get the importance of historic buildings etc. it should be her (I mean she has the Columbia bldg on her lower prospect tour), although I really think right now they need to hear different viewpoints so that they are not so easily convinced by the slick talkers :wink:...... Further investigating may turn up more and better info, but this is what I came up with recently. [email protected] http://twitter.com/#!/cityprowl_jen http://www.cityprowl.com/

And not just any main street, but one prime for redevelopment being located smack dab in the middle of the stadium and arena, the casino, and E. 4th St. If you guys feel that strongly, I hope you wrote a convincing letter to Jennifer Coleman (the Chair of the Landmarks Commission) why this should not be demolished. It also wouldnt hurt to write the others on the Commission. She is currently on the fence about it (in part because these buildings are viewed as empty and eyesores, and in part because they are not viewing things in terms of other options for these buildings) Other commission members see it as a way of giving a rebirth to area that is currently a deadzone. Do tell them why that is wrong. The vote is May 26th. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7006.990.html

To be honest I think I would prefer the destruction of the historic buildings and the horrible/diagonal skybridge over that "plan" KJP. Thats just a nightmare. :-o If its only about the amount of spaces (and your not going to provide the access they are looking for into Higbee), why not just expand the Gateway North Garage to the South as well as to the North and have a regular pedestrian bridge to some sort of structure over that hole at the corner. That spot wouldnt bother me nearly as much for a cool, human scale ped bridge as it would cutting diagonal into Higbee. But then, that whole concept would likely defeat the point of the waiting room/lounge for the Higbee bldg at the corner of Ontario and Prospect (it wouldnt alleviate their need to have a super direct connection to Higbee (the proposed ped bridge). Which again, they seem to still be pretending would only be the first phase and a small piece of the greater Casino..?

Exactly. I dont see it as anything more than that.

Just in case what? By the way if you mean just in case they are torn down, well yeah that's likely.. for the Columbia bldg anyway without any type of campaign demonstrating why these would be negative moves. The decision makers (the people that are supposed to be about protecting such structures are viewing things in a rather short sighted manner, saying things like "its a dead zone" and "I'm torn". That doesn't make me very optimistic.

Cool Pics... They showed the addition being taken down in that video that was posted yesterday. Gosh I hope not, since the exterior is granite. The plan is to restore it completely (with the appropriate material).

Article in the PD today.... As I said above: "By the way if my records are correct the Chair of the Cleveland Landmarks Commission is Jennifer Coleman, the woman that put together the City Prowl audio tours, and has said hello on the board before." Quoted from the article: "would clear the way for the rebirth of an area that one commission member referred to as a "dead zone."" Commission Chairwoman Jennifer Coleman said she didn't like the idea of losing the Columbia, a designated landmark built in 1909, but she added that she understood the importance of parking. "I'm torn," Coleman said. The panel is expected to vote on the issue May 26. Ms. Coleman should definately be contacted and sent letters as well. I havent thus far been able to find contact information for her. Casino developers want to knock down a building to make way for valet parking centerPublished: Friday, May 13, 2011, 5:30 AM Updated: Friday, May 13, 2011, 9:55 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The developer of Cleveland's downtown casino said Thursday that it needs to demolish a century-old building to make way for a valet parking center that will welcome millions of people to the gambling center a year. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/casino_developers_want_to_knoc.html

Ah yes I was confusing the 2 names. Yeah the Orchid guy was a bit unusual in that he had culinary talent, but wacky busniness sense. We went in to his place once and the server sat us down and said that the chef was not there, but was out delivering a cake, so we went to 3-birds instead. Other times he would just close.

oops.

Yeah, really we were all over that building :drunk:(I even have dvd's of the material)..... Maybe since then they were having a fire sale? I swear the cheapest things (small 1 bedroom) were in the 400's, and the top units were over 1 million... The square footage price was more than anything I have seen in that market (comparable to DC prices), but they explained how that was a result of the expensive and solid construction methods that were used.?

The unit we looked at which was one of the cheapest and smallest (but was actually a 2 bedroom (one which was only big enough to be an office) was just under $600,000. There were a few that were a little bit cheaper but not much. Also the monthly fees were another factor on top of that for us. I thought the Townhouses were in the upper 200's? *edit DocBroc you may be right about if it was rental building... I know in our building in DC, people are renting "owned units" which are valued at around $400,000, so most people are paying around $2,600 a month, but that is likely to meet the owners mortgage... A rental building would work a bit differently, but I still think it would need to be pretty pricey for Cleveland.

I didnt realize Route 66 closed. I thought people really liked it... I went there for brunch once and thought it was ok... the owner was a bit too friendly, especially if you were even a little bit attractive, so a bit uncomfortable. Thought it was kinda funny the previous guy in that space was a celebrated chef from NY (Orchid) and people in Cleveland were like Meh..... So maybe another, unlucky space.. The coffee shop in the Wilsher Building has been coming soon for some time... Must be waiting on a permit.

Hmm just down the road from the CEO of Eaton! I would say it would cut his commute much less in half. Gates Mills is just down the road from M.H. Like 10 minutes!