Chris314

Except it's not their problem. There are a lot of social organizations that are being cut out of the budget right now to clear the way for this boondoggle. Food banks, libraries, education for both children and adults, all are seeing their budgets cut back or eliminated. There is a straight line between this BS and the gutting of our social infrastructure, which hurts the clients served, the people working there, and the communities in which these orgs are located.

Actually, the positive signs on many of these things have changed over the last couple of months. By all appearances, uncertainty, tariffs, and trade wars are not ways to spur on a booming economy.

Just to add another voice, I've done the Rockside to Akron CVR trip a couple of times. It takes a little over 2 hours round-trip. While there are many beautiful scenic views, there is a decent sameness to some of it as the park is just that, a park. And yet, everyone who was a part of both groups LOVED the experience. It did not feel boring or tedious because along with the view, you also have the people you came with to talk to. It is an experience. It may not be something that every person will want to do every week or every month, but it's one that is enjoyable to do from time to time and is extremely novel to out-of-towners. And in terms of variety, extending it to Cleveland would only help in that regard as the city will add very different views. One would transition from being directly downtown to the suburbs and into the park, quite the scenic trip. And I imagine a lot of folks would not go the whole way, many would ride from downtown to Peninsula or Rockside instead of Akron, increasing access to those places and the nearby businesses with folks who aren't interested in visiting the entire route. And as others have said, while this is not a transit-oriented endeavor, increasing access to CVR for people without cars is a big deal. I work in adult education, and a massive proportion of my students are poor and cannot afford a car. What an enriching thing this could be for them, their children, and their grandchildren in the same way that having a free world-class art museum and an incredibly good zoo (free on Mondays) both serves as tremendous public goods. I don't think it needs to necessarily go all the way to Tower City, but the closer it CAN get, the better (and that seems like the most logical option based on everything else I've seen, but I'm glad to be proven wrong if there really is a stronger alternative).

With apologies to @Geowizical:

I dunno. I seem to remember some baseball Opening Day games having to deal with snow in years past. Might not be late enough. ;)

Sorry, I misstated. The number was discussed on an NPR story about DeWine's budget. I think they were speaking about how much Ohioans had gambled, which assuming people won many of those bets and got money back, well, yada yada yada. Anyway, I will gladly admit I goofed on the size of the number. However, the general point stands that gambling is a big business that is getting bigger. But yeah, my bad, sorry.

EDIT: I'm going to leave the original post below, but I goofed on the size of the amount. My main point is that gambling brought in a huge sum of money last year, which was an increase from the year before. Gambling is big business. Original Post: Legal gambling in Ohio brought in more than $9 billion last year, up about $2 billion from the year before. I'm personally very uncomfortable with gambling, but there's no denying that it is a big revenue generator. Before the casino, the non-profit I work for did a Casino Night-themed fundraiser and it was the most successful fundraiser we'd ever had up to that point. So, this seems like it would be a good source of funds for the foreseeable future. Whether it's the best way to do so, as opposed to taxing large businesses and individuals, is a very different question.

I feel like some of the bad vibes over the Cleveland awards are because we had multiple projects, ahem, Bridgeworks, which seemed like exactly the kind of project that this program was designed for. In that project's case, it got rejected multiple times for unclear reasons, which led to delays that led to the project being majorly downscaled in a way that has been very unpopular here on the forums (while I think people are trashing the current designs a little too much, it's hard to deny that they weren't nearly as nice as the previous iterations that would've been built if it had gotten the TMUD). So, there's a little frustration that we've had projects that were practically shovel-ready if they'd gotten the funding, and either didn't happen or were significantly diminished.

Do we know all the award winners? It seems like NEO was hosed this round, which is disappointing. I wonder where all the money went.

The loss of income taxes for those employed by the Browns is not the issue (they are likely already incorporated in Berea, though I don't know for sure). And if the Haslams took Bibb's offer, the city wouldn't get any of the taxes on tickets for a very long time, nor the benefits of parking taxes. However, to me, all of those things are minor. If Haslam wanted to build in Brookpark on his own dime and it was just for the Browns, I wouldn't mind so much. What angers me is that he clearly wants to poach a lot of activity and events from downtown, siphoning off the burgeoning growth this city has lacked for my entire lifetime, just so that he can be a few dollars richer. He wants events that would otherwise support downtown businesses and hotels and venues all come to Potterville, OH. That is the issue. I know a lot of folks are saying the other developments won't follow, but I'm not so sure. And I don't want to risk it. Again, if all he's going to do is build a stadium for the Browns down there, it's dumb and shortsighted and being done in the most idiotic way imaginable (especially how it looks like he's ignoring public transit options), but that is his mess. But we need to resist with every means available his desire to suck us dry.

Take screenshots of this ASAP and note the dates for all of it. They could change that at any time and then half your proof disappears. Good for you. At this point, it feels like they're going to be more out of pocket not installing the Murphy bed. Unless they think they'd have trouble leasing the apartment after you if it was installed, I cannot see the logic of this. but a lot of things businesses do confuses me. YMMV

From all appearances, there has been virtually 0% consideration given to anything except for Jimmy Haslam's ego ever since Brookpark was considered an option.

No offense, but it sounds like you want the taxpayers to bend over backwards in cold hard cash for very soft "commitments" with no guarantees whatsoever. This is a terrible framework. The county has much more pressing concerns. In my personal opinion, they shouldn't get a penny from the county if they decamp to Brookpark, but even if there is some sort of public component, $500 million is stratospherically too much from Cuyahoga County.

Not going to lie, while I would prefer one of the pre-downsized options, I actually think they've made something decent out of all of these reviews. It's not the most exciting of designs, but if this current version is what had originally been pitched, I think most people here would be very positive.

You say that like it's a bad thing! I know it's not for everyone, but I think Brutalism gets a bad wrap. FWIW, I like the look of this.

KJP indicated in that building's thread that the supplier may have gone bankrupt. So, yeah, that might take a minute...

I'll admit that I can't comment on that, as I wasn't around yet. Others with better memory or knowledge of those particulars can chime in. All I'll say is that I'd take any business developers statements with a grain of salt. In my experience, they tend to follow the best payout for themselves at the expense of just about everything else. The larger point remains that the Richfield Coliseum absolutely pulled events/money from downtown with the hope it would pull from both Cleveland and Akron. It also wasn't as successful as hoped, because they tore it down less than 25 years later. One would hope it would serve as a lesson learned. The Berea development is a very different animal than what the Haslams want to do in Brookpark. One looks to be a net positive while the other would be a monument to egotistical hubris and selfishness that (if implemented in the way it is planned) would hinder the dynamic growth our region so desperately needs on the whims of one man's vanity. I'll leave it to everyone here to determine which one is which.

First, I'd hardly call Richfield the suburbs. The idea was to get support from two separate city fanbases by placing the Coliseum between Akron and Cleveland. The area was quite off the beaten path, even AFTER the Coliseum was there. My grandparents lived out that way specifically because they wanted to live someplace quiet, then had a major sport complex built down the road. I wasn't alive yet, but I'm told my grandmother wasn't pleased... Second, The Cavs started in Cleveland and were moved out to Richfield. The Coliseum absolutely was designed to "poach" big events from Cleveland. Third, it should be about what helps the region, and the Haslam's Brookpark plan is unlikely to do that. The Berea plan looks like it will. I haven't heard much complaining about the plans in Berea, except for lackluster design (and what would a discussion on this forum be without folks taking shots at the aesthetics?).

Apparently, that's just being announced. But do we know why the Lizard closed? Both of its downtown locations were always packed. They moved out of the Galleria to, in my mind, a less convenient space nearby, and closed the one in Gateway. But it can't be that they weren't getting enough traffic, or at least that seems unlikely to me.

It's certainly not a death blow, but it would be better if the Browns only wanted their stadium. But if the Haslams truly want to make some sort of big investment that pulls stuff out from downtown, that damages the region. Many other NFL regions are growing faster and have more public funds, and it's STILL bad for them when this happens. It's not like it's good for Atlanta that the Braves moved, for example (and I know they're baseball not football, but it's the same grift). This is another case of greed and selfishness at the expense of the public. So while it may not be to the extent that Modell did it, this IS a move that can be compared as they're two of a kind.

I also think the Coast Guard station could be an amazing place if properly reactivated. A restaurant, a Lake Erie info center...something!

I always take the red line downtown for concerts, and I was shocked that the whole line was down! I ended up driving down, but would have much preferred to use the Rapid.

The amount of negativity about this project is getting absurd. The building doesn't look as good as the original designs, but man oh man, folks...comparison really is the thief of joy. Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, and finally developing this corner is absolutely a "good."

The baseball/football thing is an entirely different animal to NBA/NHL or American football/Real football (soccer). Baseball park dimensions don't easily square with football stadium dimensions, which is why almost all of the multiuse stadiums were great for one sport and pretty mediocre-or-worse for the other. There's also the issue of capacity, where baseball has way more attendance in a season, but spread over a lot more games compared to the shorter football season Baseball stadiums can be smaller and more efficient, fit better into an urban environment, and provide a significantly better experience if they don't have to cater to football. Also, the grass/turf quality matters a LOT more in baseball than football, which tears up its ground pretty aggressively. A lot of baseball players hated municipal stadium because fielding balls was harder because they'd take weird hops on the uneven, poorly maintained surface. Modell treated maintenance like a football guy, and it showed in how bad the experience was for baseball. Soccer stadiums use a similar field to football, so the overlap of design for the stadium is much greater. I am not for separating out sports generally, but baseball and football should not mix. And if the trend we're drawing is based almost exclusively off baseball teams breaking away from football arenas, it's not (solely) because teams don't want to share a space.