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From the PD: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/03/cuyahoga_commissioners_approve.html Cuyahoga commissioners approve deal on Medical Mart Posted by JKroll March 20, 2008 12:55PM The Chicago-based company that plans to run Cleveland's new convention center and Medical Mart will also build the complex and own it for at least the first 20 years. Cuyahoga County Commissioner unanimously approved an agreement Thursday with Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc....

I was too young to be working yet :) but was in HS from 81-85 and can recall being in Union Terminal (prior to Tower City of course) at 3:30 in the afternoon and it was empty and I mean maybe you would see half a dozen people wandering around tops. Guess all the people were up on E. 4th. I think downtown is better now from a built environment standpoint, although the loss of so many historic structures is sad indeed. From a vibrancy standpoint, it's on its way back, but only due to the growing residential element and younger generations of downtown workers. The generation that abandoned downtown for the suburbs will never come back in any meaningful way to support it as a retail/entertainment hub, even those that work downtown now.

At the risk of veering off topic, FCE could help Tower City by finishing Tower City. Is a big box convention center shoehorned in between Huron Rd. and the river the highest and best use of that area behind TC or is it possible that a nice mixed use neighborhood (like FCE has developed in so many other areas of the country) is the better long term plan for FCE/Tower City and Cleveland?

A number of recent posts have talked about TC as the transportation hub. What about the future? Ohio Hub, commuter rail, Amtrak? I'm not going to pretend to be the expert on this (he's over in GB) but FCE has basically turned their back on growing TC as a transportation hub. They built an office tower over top of the old western approach tracks. I'm trying to keep an open mind about these two sites but as attractive as TC is today as the transportation hub for RTA, if a new convention center at the existing location could facilitate bridging the tracks below mall C and include a major intercity rail station (one seat trip to Columbus or Chicago or Pittsburgh - leaving during the day!) that would tend to make me favor the current site. The RTA waterfront line would connect the two stations and provide nice linkage for visitors to FEB and TC amenities. None of this would really impinge on lakefront development, just bridge tracks and roadway between mall C and Browns stadium that aren't going anywhere. Then, to keep dreaming -- put a roof on Browns Stadium with a direct connection to the rail hub and the new convention center.

Hopefully more details are forthcoming. I have to say, it really amazes me sometimes how so much of the public's business ($38 million a year's worth in this case) is done behind closed doors in this town. How can there not be public hearings as part of the site selection process, held by a government body, not the chamber of commerce?

I think back in the day both buses and the red line trains shared the same destination "scrolling" signs so all destinations exist on all signs.

As a child, I always begged for a hot pretzel from the Hough bakery every time we went through the old concourse and my mother was nice enough to oblige -- to shut me up I'm sure!

Isolated location now, but with the proposed port relocation to open up that area of the lakefront for development, it's right in the middle of things and building something there so out of context (or worse, that limits access to the lakefront) would be a huge blunder. Think about the possibility of extending the street grid over the tracks and development in the area north of what would be the new WFL station. Again, I hope that this part of the plan is the part that is due for an update.

OK, I hope part of the image that is "not current" includes that little bit of Beachwood located in the WFL loop!

Based on the manpower/equipment AT&T had down at the other Superior (17th-21st) cave in, there's something under that street...

wonder how all those fiber optic cables are holdin' up :-o

^ Understood. The P&F show usually is more like watching a band (without instruments) than typical karaoke, usually. I've seen singers show up who are in bands and one of the comics even got up and sang so it was fun. So can this thread get any further OT??? My apologizes MayDay, I was just giving KJP ideas.

Pickwick & Frolic has karaoke now on Sunday nights, if you'd rather be entertained than actually sing (or if you feel the need to get away from the singers :-D). It's a bit more of a prodcution than you'll find at many of the local bars. Just an idea...

^ Many places, some that would be good for an UO meet, some not so much... One downtown location is Becky's on Saturday nights.

Wow, UOer's are everywhere... Nice to meet everyone and look forward to the next one. KJP, you can always come out and sing karaoke with me. In my experience it's a great ice breaker. Doesn't do me any good though, I'm married.

If KJP is willing to blow off a staff meeting, well what excuse do any of us have...? See everyone at 12:00 Noon!

My first impression was not negative, but today I'm starting to think this design has a bit of an "airport" feel. Just replace "W Euclid Ave" with "Rental Car Return" in your mind...

^ For fun, let's pretend it's 2028... Columbus Mayor Michael B. Coleman Jr. said he's aware of the problems at Polaris, which he called a poorly designed corridor victimized by the whims of the retail trade...

Finally got around to dusting off the photo album... Riverfest '86 I think the next two were taken in '87 or '88

Wouldn't that indicate there is an extremely high demand for them? Look at any urban area -- no doubt you'll find the highest value (other than waterfront) residential tracts are often located in either prewar first ring suburbs or even older gentrified neighborhoods in the city proper. Yes the demand is there. Modern land use concepts that gained favor in more recent decades prevent these types of neighborhoods (until recently) from being built. Just about every effort at social architecture via policy has unintended consequences. The idea of single use zoning as a tool to eradicate certain bad conditions that existed in our original urban cores had the unintended consequence of preventing us from building traditional neighborhoods with mixed uses that market evidence show people still value today. My answer to those who say sprawl is what the market demanded is that the market was constrained and skewed for decades. Constrained in land use options, lot sizes, setbacks. Skewed in that urban areas have infrastructure costs that must be borne by the population base that suburbs/exurbs do not have, at least for the initial wave of out migration. Then there are subsidized mortgages (think FHA/VA after WWII) -- stay in the old neighborhood or move out with a break from Uncle Sam. Yes "US" taxpayers will help you buy that new tract house for less than you would pay in a market without government intervention. Add in the desire in our culture for "the new" vs. "the old", plus much of what has already been mentioned, and the pressure for outward migration was/is inevitable. So many variables, but there's no doubt that subsidies and unintended consequences of social engineering played a key role -- not just market forces.

^ Can't you get out of that meeting. Tell your boss in N.O. there's a breaking story you need to cover -- "People are eating lunch Downtown on Euclid Ave. :-D

I'm guessing it will have warm cookies at check-in...

Apologizes to our friends in central Ohio (I lived there for 12 years) but if this project was in Columbus it would have been done already. The Cleve is getting screwed here. The last major infrastructure project by ODOT in these parts, someone correct me if I'm wrong -- the I-271 express lanes, started over 15 years ago, when we had a Clevelander in the governors mansion. All our gas taxes here seem to go mainly for one thing -- adding lanes for the escape to the exurbs!!! I mean holy crap, this is a no brainer and economic spin-off and (I'm just guessing) associated taxes from new development on a new lakefront boulevard would pay the city and state back in a very reasonable time frame. I know that's not part of the equation for ODOT... :x

^ Amen MayDay. I spent the better part of 2006 down there working on a project for a certain paint mfg. company and wanted desperately to spend money at the stores in TC. A 40 year old guy can only browse the racks at the GAP (it was still open then) so often before they start to look at you funny!

I'm a bit leery of the forces that want to "suburbanize" development, for lack of a better way to describe it, in the central city and inner ring. I do hope the term "campus" is a misnomer. If we get something for Eaton along the lines of an Applied Industrial HQ in the waterfront line loop then I think Stark's rant will be justified. Whatever he's done is the past, at least he wants to fill in the street grid in the Warehouse District... not put in a cul-de-sac!