ITakeTheRapid

Most of the money they offered the Browns would come from people going to Browns games. It’s not like that just gets redirected- there won’t be anything there. Cleveland is trying to lure big companies everyday. We’d give big incentives to any of them. The problem is there are more enticing markets out there. In my opinion downtown Cleveland lacks business and it lacks foot traffic. Honestly with our weather and economy it’s an uphill battle changing that. Browns stadium will be somewhere in our region as part of a multi-billion dollar development. I truly believe a better deal for the people of this region can be make downtown compared to any other location. (As long as Jimmy doesn’t self-fund it, which he won’t).

This is great news! Just booked my first flight for the spring. After evaluating all options Aer Lingus really came out on top when considering price, quality, and convenience.

Yeah it’s kinda crazy this new neighborhood sits in the middle of Ohio City, Tremont, and Downtown but lacks amenities within a 10 minute walk. I’ve altered my daily walk route to include going right down between the projects on Carter Rd. The scale is impressive but I doubt that number of units alone will really support neighborhood businesses. Although it’s a bit isolated the area does feel safe to me. I think the streetscape will hinder the broken windows/petty crimes some of us experience on the main streets of the other neighborhoods. They really need to get a plan together for the river path or even some kind of temporary sidewalk though. Walking on Carter is a mess.

As someone who goes to most home games (and often does a downtown staycation) I totally disagree. Any weekend with a major event at Browns stadium has way more energy. Hotels are usually booked up and prices are high. Can downtown survive without those 10 or so big events? Of course. Those events do matter and I wouldn’t say downtown’s exactly thriving now though. A $4B entertainment complex isn’t being built in Brook Park for 10 days though. Jimmyland will be downtown’s biggest competitor for events. There’s hope that more business will come to the region because of that dome but I’m skeptical. Comparable domes in other cities have better locations and still host few events.

Do we have data on the maintenance costs of dome vs open? US Bank Stadium is only 7 years old and already needs a $50m upgrade and $20m/year in maintenance for the next decade. I’m not trying to be argumentative here but I’d love to see data. There are old open-air stadiums across this country (all the huge college ones too). If we want something long-lasting and easy to maintain I don’t think it’s an enormous building with a transparent roof. Personally I feel even the domes in Indy and Detroit feel kinda dated. I haven’t been to Vegas but it looks like a cloudy day in Cleveland in there to me. There’s all kinds of risk here and I just hope it’s on Haslam and not the taxpayers.

It’s wild to think that the lakefront/renovation plan has been in the works for the majority of the Haslam’s ownership. The city and county are behind it, and it’s financially viable. It’s completely absurd we are at the point where we’re talking about the team leaving the region. Jimmy knew this was a small, stagnant market from the beginning. Jimmy has unilaterally decided to move the team out of Cleveland (therefore severing any formal business with the city). His ask will be around $2B in taxpayer money for a completely private project. Sorry, I know we’ve beaten this to death but I just had to recap where we’re at. It would be disgusting if the NFL would stand by a move. A storied small market team with a $1B+ stadium plan already in the works…

I’m not accepting ~$2B of taxpayer money going to a private, isolated project outside Cleveland. Jimmyland will be downtown’s biggest competitor for events. Thank goodness for Chris Ronayne. He understands every dollar that goes to Brook Park is an opportunity lost. But it’s not only him. Most of the big stakeholders in this region are with him. This thing isn’t over yet.

I’m interested to see details on the hotel brand. I’d argue that location can support something upscale. I see plenty of people choosing it over downtown. Is Dan planning on designing his own restaurant concepts? I respect the heck out of what he did at Intro but the neighborhood is hurting for some chef-driven spots.

I understand how the majority of Browns fans like the BP site. Most are suburban and probably couldn’t care less about being downtown. They can drive in to a huge lot, tailgate, drive out. Traffic will suck but at least they’ll have their cars. Maybe that’s the way the NFL is going but it’s sad to me. There’s a narrative in the local media repeated to no end that the NFL is now for high rollers- they want easy parking, fancy loges and, if traveling, a flight in before the game and out after. This goes against I personally feel, and I just don’t buy it. I travel to a good amount of games and will take exploring a city for a long weekend trip in a nice hotel every time. Heck, we live an hour walk from the stadium and will often spend the night before downtown just to take in the buzz. Whatever retail, bars, restaurants, and hotels get built around that place will only soak up a small portion of the 60k crowd. Seriously how many hotel rooms could survive in BP? The businesses will be “seasonal” for game days and big events. Not great for consistency or quality. Outside of Browns games a BP dome will really suck for other events. I think of events like those in Indy- drum corps championships, conventions, etc. 20-30k people coming and going throughout 3-4 days. All these out of towners being transported to downtown and back over and over. And if somehow a Superbowl or other big national events get hosted there it will be a terrible visitor experience compared to other warm weather cities or downtown domes. Yes, a dome is better than sitting outside in the cold but that doesn’t mean folks want to book a trip to Brook Park Ohio in the middle of winter.

I really think a Market District hotel could support room rates higher than most of downtown. It’s surprising Harbor Bay didn’t do it on their phase 2 space. I just hope it’s a high quality build with secure parking and a luxurious/trendy brand. I think Thompson would be perfect.

All true. I live 2 blocks away from the OHC station and take it often. I just think visitors spending ~1hr a day minimum on the redline, plus waits, plus walking time make the experience terrible compared to other domes which are all in either downtowns or warm climates. In my experience, even in bigger cities, when 60k+ are let out of a stadium at once the lines for trains are brutal. I don’t think the Uber situation will be great either. I guess visitors and those of us who don’t want to drive can all hang out at Jimmy’s Red Robin.

I understand how some suburbanites prefer a huge parking lot off a highway. I understand why callers keep gushing about a Browns development reminiscent of the great Crocker Park. Perhaps it’s even the majority of the fanbase that enjoys this experience over going to a real city. What I don’t understand is how Brook Park competes for big national events and conventions. If it’s November-March anyone in their right mind would prefer hosting a big event somewhere warm enough to enjoy the outdoors. For those events that could go to a cold weather city how is Brook Park going to compete with downtown Chicago, Indy, or Detroit? Heck, even events like the big marching band competitions in Indy are multi-day with thousands of participants and audience members coming and going multiple times throughout. Final Fours and conventions are the same. Visitors better be ready to spend a lot of time on shuttle buses.

After walking around downtown the past couple days and taking in all the Final Four buildup I’m wondering what big, national, and multi-day events would be like hosted in Brookpark. How many hotel rooms could realistically be included in such a project? For any decent sized event I’d think the majority of guests would stay downtown. The back and forth would make it way less desirable than places like Detroit and Indy. I fear those without a car have the potential of getting trapped in Brookpark. The Post Office site is such an improvement.

I’ve been taking my daily walk down Carter Rd through these two projects and the scale of it all is pretty fantastic. I hope when these two are completed we don’t need to wait for better pedestrian connections. Without a street grid the parking options will be slim for visitors as well.

I get that downtown’s livelihood isn’t based on 8 or 9 days. A good part of it is based on the business its entertainment districts (E4th, Warehouse, FEB) get though. And most of this business comes from the burbs. If Haslam builds in Brook Park it’ll be competition, and not only for 8-9 days a year. Just on this holiday weekend it was interesting to hear my suburban family members discuss how it would be sad if the team leaves Cleveland. I’m fine with Bibb holding firm on the numbers side but I’d appreciate if he’d push publicly that the Cleveland Browns should play in the city. Edit: The more I think about this the more I think Bibb needs to reframe the options. We’ve seen the media report that Haslam will choose between renovating the current stadium or a new dome in Brook Park. Bibb should say the city would be happy to have a new dome. He should say if Jimmy can build one outside the city, he could build one here.

To me that seems like a desperate attempt for Jimmy’s scraps. Stadium deal tax revenue isn’t great to start. With all new construction I’m sure the stadium and mall would be abated. Then reintroduce a few hundred million in Cleveland taxpayer dollars? I don’t think the math would work out for Cleveland and I don’t want the risk. If Jimmy wants to move out and build a palace he can figure out the challenges. Get the state and region involved, contract security and other services. All these outside visitors coming to the Brookpark site for a major event will still mostly stay in Cleveland and see Cleveland attractions. They will just have the world class experience of an airport rental car, waiting in a herd for the rapid, or hanging out at the new Uber pickup. And for reasons like that I’m beginning to think the name Brookpark Browns is more fitting.

Why would Cleveland even want it? The Brookpark dome and all the businesses and parking will be controlled by Haslam. Sucking the life from downtown businesses directly to Haslam. Then Cleveland has to support his dome with its resources?

Well a dome sure would be transformative for Brookpark. It’s a decision that may please the suburban based, drive-to-the-game Browns fans but wouldn’t do much for promoting the city. What a terrible location for bigger national events- Brookpark OH vs all the other regional downtown domes. Heck, even for all the visiting NFL fans it’d be a bummer.

I think it all depends on attendance this season. It’s disappointing these areas won’t be fully built out like the Corner (although the terrace area looks promising). But it makes sense for these areas to be flexible depending on demand. They’re really in the least desirable areas of the park and I can’t think of a better way to activate it. Obviously opening day will be a time to experience it all. I’m sure after that we’ll see quite a lull (and plenty of commentary) until the weather heats up.

As someone who’s lived in the neighborhood for almost a decade now it’s been interesting to see the changes. The streets seem safer and there are currently 15 homes going up within a block- going for over twice the price when I moved in (I felt it was a gamble at that time). New apartments keep filling up without issue. And yet look around and see the majority of new retail space is still empty. Many of the best restaurants have closed and those on the horizon all seem to be chains or “concepts” from developers. Compared to similar neighborhoods in peer cities the dining scene feels rough. I’m a regular customer at Pearl Street and I will say the space is big and customers seem sparse. But it hurts. The crazy thing is the food is totally on trend with cool spots in big cities. There is a monster built in advantage for these new chains popping up across the neighborhood. There needs to be a way to support independents or there won’t be any left.

I’m not sure who makes that decision but I was always under the impression it was a 4 star. I’ve done a good amount of staycations in Cleveland recently and I’d agree Ritz is the closest thing we have. I have to admit it doesn’t compare well to other Ritzs. Or any other 5 star hotel I’ve stayed at :(

Any news on 2104 W25th? (Abandoned Dave’s Hot Chicken). It’s an eyesore in its current state.

Thanks for the info. Castele is great and this sounds realistic imo. A new large site near downtown benefits both Haslam and the city. City keeps the team and ~700k visitors and Haslam can have control, build related development, and get $300mil more. It seems plenty of people feel that the lakefront stadium blocks development. I agree it’s not ideal site with the stadium but moving it (and a $1b investment) essentially makes for a $230m land bridge to nothing. I’m afraid any lakefront development (including the park space) is farther in the future than any city officials will admit, either way.

Yeah I’ll believe that one when I see it. Don’t know what’s more likely, Cleveland gets its first 5 star hotel or Kassouf goes to the slammer.

It’s all about perspective. From the westside SHW appears taller to me despite being shorter. This shot is from near the Lorain Carnegie bridge along the towpath trail. Along this stretch you get great reflections of terminal tower too!