jam40jeff

Why? Because of the history? The Cleveland Browns' 50 years (as of 1996 or so when the site decision was made) isn't a lot of history. Besides...the Indians moved locations and there was no revolt...and they had been at Municipal Stadium much longer than the Browns had been in Cleveland.

^ Thanks, you just killed my buzz.

Hmmm...I'd love to see this project actually happen, but that's awfully discouraging, especially considering the lower price point this time around.

I guess I don't get what Ikea's strategy is. If they want regional stores which serve an area within 2 hours drive, then why do they have 2 DC stores, 1 in Baltimore, and 1 in South Philly. I would think 1 in DC and 1 in Philly would have more than covered that area if the company doesn't see a need for an Ikea to serve northern Ohio.

Read the article. I simply picked out the stores we have which are stated to be ones which will only open in major markets. I was using them to point out that we can support major market stores such as an Ikea. If you have enough people in the area, you don't need to rely on people who would have to drive over 2 hours to get to the store. I wonder how an Ikea survives on Long Island? The Atlantic Ocean must buy a lot of furniture.

My point about those other stores are that they are ones which they usually only put a couple per state, and for which the company's require large populations before they will consider a location. Regardless of how far people have to drive to get to a place, Ikea stated they look for a metro area of 2 million people. Obviously, we have that beat. Even if people only came to Cleveland from the Cleveland and Akron/Canton MSA's, we'd have 3 million people within range of an Ikea right there. Add to that all of the people closer to Cleveland than Detroit or Pittsburgh (or I believe Cincinnati will have one) and you have a pretty large customer base. Just because some people will drive to Pittsburgh doesn't mean that we couldn't support a store. I would be willing to bet 90% of the shoppers at an Ikea in Cleveland would be people who would not make a trek to Pittsburgh or Detroit to shop at one. I, for example, would fit into that group.

^ Nordstrom, Saks Fifth Avenue, Whole Foods, American Apparel, Kenneth Cole, etc. are stores that look for a large metro area to open up. In the following article... http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/business/158775 they quote "Ikea typically looks at cities with about 2 million people for one store, said Joseph Roth, an Ikea spokesman." (And in the context of the article, by "cities" they clearly mean "metro areas".) I would think that Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Northeast Ohio (whether that be Cleveland or Canton/Akron) could all support an Ikea based on the current business model. I am surprised that they don't seem to be looking here.

In that case, it's amazing we have any stores in Northeast Ohio... ???

I guess I'm just having trouble spotting 19 "places" with mayors not on the list. It seems like almost ever place of consequence minus a few is on the list.

Also, I just noticed Brooklyn and Seven Hills (and of course Westlake was mentioned by someone else) are absent from the list. Still, it's a pretty impressive showing of support by the mayors of Cuyahoga County cities.

So who's missing on that list? North Olmsted, Strongsville, Richmond Heights, and Highland Heights stick out for me. Are there others? Do places like Woodmere, North Randall, and Highland Hills even have a mayor?

Obviously none of us can know if Wolstein would be able to work out his plan for the East Bank without those parcels, but I'm going to guess he won't proceed until he has them. He seems to want to build a big cohesive neighborhood and most likely would want/need control of the entire area to do just that.

Have you read early posts in this thread? I know its a lot but it would be helpful to read the entire thing. Give the guy a break...he's new here and the thread is 35 friggin pages long. A simple answer might have done well this time.

humm...now I'm scratching my head. If built in UC, there would need to build a convention sized hotel close by. Along with the types of restaurants and other "expense report" staples you have easily available downtown. I never said I thought it was smart, I was just trying to figure out what they could possibly be talking about in UC. No doubt the Convention Center/Medical Mart belongs (and pretty much assuredly will end up) downtown. As far as my gut feeling on where it will end up, I am going to say attached to Tower City. Hopefully we will get a better design than the one previously posted, but the site just seems to make the most sense to me. It's attached to (very upscale) hotels, a mall, a probable Medical Mart site, and is situated in a convenient location between the two most happening nightlife areas downtown. Furthermore, it will be very close to the proposed Pesht complex, and would hopefully spur interest in developing Scranton peninsula. And before people start speculating, I do not particularly like FCE. I just want what I think makes the most sense for downtown. I think this project could do wonders for public square.

That's crazy...the downtown Y isn't really downtown? ???

No...barring a new building or unless Case decided to abandon its West Campus plans or something.

Agreed, a lakefront site would do about as much for downtown as the Browns Stadium and Rock Hall...pretty much nothing.

Do you mean Carnegie?

Not a half bad idea, if someone could actually figure out a methodology for accurately defining downtown and estimating these figures somehow. I actually really like this idea as well. Of course, it would require finding someone to finance it, but it would probably be about the best thing that Urban Ohio could do to "get the word out" beyond this website. it could also, of course, contain the "Urban Ohio Report."

Agreed, hopefully between these population and University Circle, Pesht (and possibly Wolstein East Bank ??) can add enough residential to really justify some department stores downtown. I think the reason you see department stores in other downtowns which seem to be in a lesser position than Cleveland's comes down to two factors... (1) It's easier to keep a department store than to get a new one and (2) Destination stores can survive even when the downtown population can't support them. Higbees was golden. When Dillards took over it completely lost its magic touch, at a time when downtown was really struggling. I think May Company probably fell victim mainly to the hard times which had fallen on Cleveland. Furthermore, neither Dillards nor the May Company were destination stores like a Saks, Nordstrom, or Nieman Marcus. Once the department stores are gone, it's a lot harder to bring new ones in. Even though downtown is doing tremendously better now than it was 15-20 years ago, the fact remains that the stores moved out then, and now we have to reach a higher level to draw stores in. Had the stores survived the tough times of the 80s and 90s, I think that they would be doing farily well right now. Hopefully, this will all be a moot point in another 10 years.

It's very hard to over-extend your welcome on this board, so don't worry. As long as you don't start telling the HBIC he is part of the problem. :wink: Anyways, the problem is forcing the right attitude on the people, and getting the right leadership in power. If you have any ideas, I'm sure all of us here would be open to them.

Actually, until next spring, Ohio has no Ikeas. I thought it would have been nice to have at Steelyard as well.

All joking aside, I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you were trying to say here. Let's try again... Dillards became Higbee's around the time (or shortly thereafter) Tower City opened. Dillards was universally panned and shunned by many Higbee's shoppers who, rightfully, thought these Arkansas hicks couldn't run our prime downtown department store. Next door, however -- attached, in fact, you have a gleaming new mall filled with individual shops. These shops, located under one roof, for some/many, no doubt became like the departments of their long-gone Higbee's (hence the title "department store") the only difference is that these shops are owned by separate companies but, again, of a higher quality than Dillard's; logic would dictate a specialty store would do better than Dillard's weak effort. So rather than go to Dillard's men's dept (cause the product and service is crap) you may go to Brooks Brothers, if you can afford it. A younger woman may go to Ann Taylor's; teens, the Gap. Guys, rather than going to Dillard's shoe dept, ... Johnston & Murphy, etc... Obviously, the type of high-end department store FCE initially sought -- Neiman Marcus, would NOT have hemorrhaged customers as Dillard's did Higbee's old crowd. But, alas, N.M. could not be landed. Now, do you get what the heck I'm talking about? Yes. Thanks for articulating more clearly the second time around. Your first post really didn't make much sense when I read it...maybe it was just too late and I couldn't get past a couple grammatical errors, I don't know.

Is that Payne or Chester that used to run into Superior at Munson St. (now E. 12th St.)? I always thought it was interesting how everything south of Superior is laid out on two different grids oriented at 30 degree angles to each other, like the planners were in a fight about which direction those streets should actually run. This ended up in having some neat Times Square-ish pointed buildings.

All joking aside, I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you were trying to say here.