jam40jeff

I never said Shaker Square. Shaker Heights is quite varied. It's not all Shaker Lakes. The areas along Chagrin and the southern part of Lee are more dense, as well as there being many apartment buildings along Van Aken. The neighborhoods south of Van Aken are hardly "tudors on a hill". But if you want, we can take Shaker Heights out of the equation because I'd bet that Cleveland Heights and Lakewood combine for a higher population than Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, and Dormont. OK, looking up populations, each city individually is bigger than all 3 of those neighborhoods combined.

I would say Shaker Heights is as urban as Squirrel Hill, Cleveland Heights and Lakewood more comparable to Shadyside and Dormont.

I believe people were talking about it on the E. 4th thread.

CDawg, I posted those and do realize they're metro stats. But again, it's always hard to compare cities. Pittsburgh happens to have Shadyside and Squirrel Hill and Dormont in its city limits, but they are no more urban than Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, and Shaker Heights. Add those inner rings into Cleveland's city limits and I bet the city stats are more comparable.

Neither can you. Here is a more complete comparison of statistics between the two metro areas: Unemployment Rate 8/2012 Cleveland - 6.9 Pittsburgh - 7.5 Median Household Income Cleveland - $42,215 (85 of 280) Pittsburgh - $37,467 (153 of 280) Median Per Capita Income Cleveland - $22,319 (47 of 280) Pittsburgh - $20,935 (90 of 280) Share With College Degree Cleveland - 27.7% Pittsburgh - 29.1% MSA Population Change from 2000 to 2010 Cleveland - -3.3% Pittburgh - -3.1% I fail to see where Pittsburgh is so much better and "doing things right" and a model for the rust belt, etc. It's marginally better in a couple areas, and worse in a few others. My original point is that, even if you consider it to be better than Cleveland, it surely shouldn't be ranked 37 spots ahead of Cleveland in the Top 50 list.

Gotta love 19 Action News. They spelled both losing and loses wrong.

I don't think anyone proposed a Dollar General. Willyboy was saying that if retailers look at income 3-5 miles from the spot that he doesn't see the demographics suiting any higher end retail, and used Dollar General as a hypothetical example of a store that would work if those are the parameters retailers use.

I always say the same thing about Pittsburgh. It has great neighborhoods, but their downtown is pretty scary after work hours.

I felt like the West Side Market had a more diverse selection and higher quality vendors than The Strip, but I may just not have experienced the right parts of The Strip. The architecture and density was definitely awesome, though. As far as PNC Park goes, I have been to multiple games there and I really like the park. It's siting is awesome, the way it interacts with the river and the skyline. It seemed like the seating was more cramped, though. I'd have the guess the they had limited space to work with since it seats 5,000 less than Progressive Field and still feels like the seats are tighter. What's interesting, though, is that when you adjust for inflation, the cost of the two ballparks is nearly identical (and the same architect was used for both). EDIT: The first review of The Strip on TripAdvisor captures part of what I didn't like about The Strip and why I like the Westside Market better: I like the fact that the Westside Market feels like it caters solely to actual shoppers, and tourists still come to see it. You don't get hawked to buy Browns gear at every turn. That feature of The Strip reminded me of Little Italy in Manhattan, where every 5 feet is a stand where Asians are trying to pawn cheesy I Love Italy buttons off on you.

That's a beautiful retention basin next to the building!

Great pics. The ballpark does have an unbelievably awesome skyline view and that is why I like it. Other than that, though, it feels like a cheaper version of Progressive Field. I need to give The Strip another chance. The few times I've been there I thought it felt dirty (not somewhere I'd want to buy food) and felt more like a big Geneva-on-the-Lake than a West Side Market. The density and hills in Pittsburgh sure do make for a lot of scenic photo opportunities. Did you head over to Carson Street at all? It has a huge stretch of Victorian architecture, pretty much all intact and functioning as stores, restaurants, and bars.

That's the whole point. It's more interesting when you aren't planning it out. That's why people still listen to the radio and Shuffle is a popular feature on music players.

I'm pretty certain AJ93 was being sarcastic when he asked what we can learn from Portland.

Could you tell me why I misspelled it because as far as I know it was an honest mistake? When I said it was the first time I misspelled it, I meant it as in "everybody makes mistakes sometimes." I can't even figure out what you think I would have meant by "cleverly" misspelling Cincinnati. Come down off your high horse once in a while.

My point is that you do the same thing with Cincinnati that we do with Cleveland. You live there, so you're proud of it and may have a higher opinion of it than others who don't. And yeah, I seriously did just misspell Cincinnati. If you go back through my posts, I'll bet you it's the first time I misspelled it. Don't be such a spelling elitist!

There are plenty of people saying positive things about Pittsburgh, myself included. I even would say I'd rank Pittsburgh ahead of Cleveland at this point. But 37 spots ahead? No way. By the way, you're the one who earlier trumpeted Cincinatti over ALL 3 C's AND Pittsburgh earlier. If this thread annoys you so much, stop reading it.

Yes, but Cleveland does the decent thing by trying to herd most of them into a confined part of the metro area where the rest of us can't hear their country music, or see their trucks' Yosemite Sam mudflaps, or smell their grits. You know the place I'm talking about....... Of course I know the place you're talking about...the west side!!! :)

Hahahahahahhahahahaha. The Browns. Hahahahahahahahaha.

I love Pittsburgh, but it has a surprising number of rednecks (count the confederate flags on Pittsburgh houses sometime). Yet it's urban density, enabled by its many developed valleys, exceeds that of any of Ohio's Big 3. It's transit is on par if not slightly better than Cleveland's. Its cultural offerings are equal to Cleveland's too. But that redneck thing really bothers me, something I also see too much of in Columbus and Cincy. I pretty much agree with all of this (both the good and bad of Pittsburgh). I would add, though, that as impressive as some of their neighborhoods within the city limits are, their downtown is pretty dead and downright scary many nights. Surely not as active as Cleveland's.

Talk about perception being everything...Pittsburgh at #11 and Cleveland at #48? C'mon. Have you been to Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh is nice! It has a lot going for it, too. I'd take Pittsburgh over Cleveland or Columbus, just not Cincinnati. That's just me. I've been to Pittsburgh many times. I really like it. I feel it's in the same ballpark as Cleveland and Cincinnati, though, not on a whole different level.

Why is there a Columbus ad on this?? Why is one of only a few shots of Columbus in the ad of a bunch of traffic on the freeway?

Talk about perception being everything...Pittsburgh at #11 and Cleveland at #48? C'mon.

Seeing the sun is different than being blinded by it.

And yet Ohio isn't much different from the other 49 states.

I think Melt would take customers away from Flannery's, Harry Buffalo, Panini's, and Winking Lizard more than Huron Point Tavern and Clevelander.