NBow37

Just gotta be positive. I know its physically nauseating to think that COAST and Smitherman could control the future of this city, but we just gotta keep spreading the good word.

This just happened to me on an elevator: OLD MAN Long day Huh? ME Yes. I still have to vote. OLD MAN Do me a favor. Vote against that stupid streetcar. ME I wasn't aware there was an issue that was solely against the streetcar and the streetcar only OLD MAN Yes. That's the issue 9 thing. ME Oh right. The anti-passenger rail issue? I am definitely voting no on that issue. OLD MAN Good for you. Needless to say I was perplexed, shocked, and dumbfounded. This will be an interesting next few hours waiting for the results. This is why people voting on everything is disastrous

Isn't Avondale and North Avondale Smitherman Territory?

http://thephonyconey.blogspot.com/2009/11/provost-witnesses-election-fraud.html "...for the second time at the same polling place. Last year, The Provost's ballot was taken by a poll worker, examined, and possibly discarded. The Provost never saw his ballot inserted into the reader and was non-verbally intimidated into leaving the premises. The new ballot-reading machine could not have been simpler, but nevertheless ballots were taken from the hands of voters, quite obviously looked at by a poll worker (unlike old-fashioned punch cards the design of the new ballots makes voter decisions visible from across the room), and then inserted (or not) into the machine by the poll worker. This year, someone -- either a voter or a poll worker -- taped a flyer advertising four school board candidates to the "desk" part of the booths so that it was visible directly above ballots. Poll workers are trained to patrol booths in order to prevent people from doing this, but given the crinkly character of this particular flyer, it appeared to have been taped to the booth for several hours. Of course, if the flyers were posted by poll workers, it is a serious crime. " Lets hope COAST or the NAACP are not up to this

It's safe to say this has been one of the most unproductive work days I've had in a long time Plus One. I feel like Howie Mandel at an ADD convention where they serve free Red Bull. I just can't focus at all and I have all this energy

Thanks, but that is an endorsement for No on 9. I'm trying to see who I should vote for council based a lot on their support for the streetcar. Thanks everyone for the info. I think Osogato has your question answered above.

It's safe to say this has been one of the most unproductive work days I've had in a long time

Some groups/people endorsing a "Vote no" on issue 9: 1) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Stanley Aronoff 2) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Richard Finan 3) Representative Denise Driehaus 4) Bill Cunningham - Radio Personality 5) Mike McConnell - Radio Personality 6) Cincinnatians for Progress 7) Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission 8 ) City Council Woman and former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls 9) The League of Women Voters of the Cincinnati Area 10) St Louis Urban Workshop 11) UC Student Government 12) The Cincinnati Zoo 13) Cincinnati AFL-CIO Labor Council 14) Councilman Chris Bortz 15) Cincinnati Charter Committee 16) Hamilton County Democrats 17) Councilman Jeff Berding 18) The Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce 19) The Cincinnatus Association 20) Councilman Kevin Flynn 21) Councilman Cecil Thomas 22) Mayor Mark Mallory 23) Councilman David Crowley 24) Councilman Greg Harris 25) Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz 26) Hamilton County Commissioner David Pepper 27) Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune 28) Former Mayor Arn Bortz 29) Former Mayor Bobbie Sterne 30) Former Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell 31) State senator Eric Kearney 32) Cincinnati Business Courier 33) Cincy PAC 34) Hispanic Chamber of Commerce 35) Mayor's YPKC 36) Over-The-Rhine Chamber of Commerce 37) US Green Building Council - Cincy Chapter 38) Downtown Resident Council 39) Queen City Bike 40) Pendleton Neighborhood Council 41) Cincinnati Planning Commission 42) Cincinnati Enquirer Editorial Board 43) Cincinnati Democratic Party 44) The Sierra Club 45) All Aboard Ohio 46) Agenda 360 47) Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority 48) African American Chamber of Commerce Groups/People Endorsing a vote "YES" for Issue 9 are: 1) COAST 2) NAACP 3) Cincinnati Tea Party 4) Former Congressman and Mayor Tom Luken 5) Mark Miller and Wedemandavote 6) Councilman Charlie Winburn 7) Councilman Lemarque Ward 8 ) Southwest Ohio Green Party 9) Councilman Chris Monzel

That came out too harsh and pompous I apologize. I'm anxiously awaiting the results. It sickens me that Smitherman could decide the city's future

Lets be honest. There are a lot of stupid people out there. 24% of Americans can't name the country America fought in the Revolutionary War. More than 2/3 of Americans don't know what Roe vs Wade is. Almost 2/3 don't know what the FDA does. Nearly half of Americans don't know that states have two senators. More than half can't name their senators. 18% think the sun revolves around the earth. A third of Republicans believe Obama is not a citizen A third of Democrats believe Bush had prior knowledge about 9/11 Half of Americans believe Christianity is older than Judaism What scares me is people can easily be mislead by the lies and half truths out there promoted by COAST and Smitherman. What it essentially comes down to is who marketed better. That's scary

Crap... I wish there was a website that tallied up to the minute votes like an ESPN Gametracker score.

Yes, but then its a half a million dollar election, time passes while inflation hits, and the delay will probably cost us federal funding. Eventually projects will just bypass Cincinnati to avoid these troubles. In theory the public vote sounds nice, but in actual practice its disastrous, and we would literally be the ONLY city in the country to have this on our charter

Agreed. The mayoral race is the one thing I'm not worried about at all. You're probably right. But I will be a lot more relieved when I see it officially. After reading all the groups and people opposed to issue 9, I'm feeling pretty good about it as well. But who knows what COAST and the NAACP will stoop to. If they have no qualms about deceiving people to get signatures for the initiative and no qualms in regards to distorting/lying about the facts, who knows what else they will try to do.

Nervous....If Wenstrup is elected, rail is as good as dead here for quite some time. If issue 9 passes, nothing will come to fruition until gas prices go up again and people demand some rail. If Wenstrup is elected and issue 9 passes, Cincinnati will be left out of nearly everything rail-wise including the midwest hub. Not to mention COAST will effectively influence the city with Wenstrup. Cmon Cincy!

You mean, like the American Revolution? Like allowing hate groups to have free speech? Like the government takeover and combination of bankrupt northeast railroads into Conrail in the 1970s? Or Chrysler in the early 1980s? Like allowing black kids to go to an all-white school in Little Rock? Like prohibiting euthanasia? After 233 years of a representative republic form of government, why is it suddenly so important for us to vote on everything? Popular rule is often a horrible way to run government. It is slow, cumbersome and inefficient. Much of what needs to get done often cannot get done under popular rule. We seek a representative republic form of government to create and enforce laws as a check and balance against abuses by persons and corporate power (which can take one's freedoms as thoroughly as government can). Government occurs naturally in all societies, whether it's our parents who govern a family, a chief and elders who govern a tribe, capos who govern a mafia clan, or a board of directors who govern a company. We often need them to make unpopular decisions for the better of the whole or for the long term. So could Cincinnatians vote to support funding for a passenger rail improvement and then seek state or federal funding? Sure, but it takes longer, which means the project cost will go up in the one-year delay period. Inflation has ranged from 1-4 percent in the 2000s, so for a $100 million rail project, that means a project cost increase of $1 million to $4 million due to a popular vote. Also, the city has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to place a citywide question on the ballot (anyone recall what the per-precinct cost is?). These are two expensive, selectively punitive strikes against city officials making the hard choice of putting a passenger rail improvement on the ballot. That's especially true when these costs aren't incurred for road and bridge projects. If you're a city official, would you still hold the same interest in passenger rail? Well said. It's naive to expect most of them to have the time, energy, resources and experience to thorougly examine the details and ramifications of each issue that is proposed on the ballot. Many voters vote strictly down party lines. I am very afraid of letting voters take crucial decisions out of the hands of the people elected to make them - and who generally are better informed/educated about major policy issues and their ramifications, than the public. We elect them to take care of it for us because we trust we've elected the right person for the job. If not, we vote them out next election. In the end,if this passes, it comes down to special interests and who markets their side better, not whats best for the city. This would make us literally the only large city in the US to have a public vote on any form of passenger rail. They sound good in theory, but referendums and ballot initiatives are never fully thought out and only offer a "take it or leave it" proposition. That's not realistic and it always makes for bad law. They are expensive, hard to undue, and time consuming. California should be a prime example of why they don't work For Issue 9, lets say the its passes. All the stimulus and federal funds available for infrastructure and job creation projects (passenger rail, etc) are immediately at risk. Any public vote will delay these projects and make the city possibly ineligible for literally millions of dollars in federal funding. We will get skipped over in favor of other cities. This issue states that it would apply to all types of funding - Federal, state, and private. So if a wealthy person wants to give the city a lot of dough for passenger rail, we'd wait several months or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to conduct an election to vote on whether or not to accept the donation. This whole initiative is poorly poorly worded. It's an anti-passenger rail initiative, not just streetcar, and it is terribly written. That's why groups and people from all sides of the political spectrum are against it.

I hope you don't mind, but I edited your post to fix the smiley faces which happens when you type an 8 next to ). If you put a space between them, it fixes the problem. BTW, I also added All Aboard Ohio to your endorsement list. See the Aug. 10 press release at: http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/2009/08/ Thank you! I'm using this no list to help spread the word. It's absurd we even have to have this conversation. Smitherman already has 2 other ballot initiatives in the works

Ok thank you. I know Coast "claimed" her on their blog, but I don't know if she's come out for or against the issue. Any idea of how polling is going on the issue?

Some groups/people endorsing a "Vote no" on issue 9: 1) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Stanley Aronoff 2) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Richard Finan 3) Representative Denise Driehaus 4) Bill Cunningham - Radio Personality 5) Mike McConnell - Radio Personality 6) Cincinnatians for Progress 7) Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission 8 ) City Council Woman and former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls 9) The League of Women Voters of the Cincinnati Area 10) St Louis Urban Workshop 11) UC Student Government 12) The Cincinnati Zoo 13) Cincinnati AFL-CIO Labor Council 14) Councilman Chris Bortz 15) Cincinnati Charter Committee 16) Hamilton County Democrats 17) Councilman Jeff Berding 18) The Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce 19) The Cincinnatus Association 20) Councilman Kevin Flynn 21) Councilman Cecil Thomas 22) Mayor Mark Mallory 23) Councilman David Crowley 24) Councilman Greg Harris 25) Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz 26) Hamilton County Commissioner David Pepper 27) Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune 28) Former Mayor Arn Bortz 29) Former Mayor Bobbie Sterne 30) Former Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell 31) State senator Eric Kearney 32) Cincinnati Business Courier 33) Cincy PAC 34) Hispanic Chamber of Commerce 35) Mayor's YPKC 36) Over-The-Rhine Chamber of Commerce 37) US Green Building Council - Cincy Chapter 38) Downtown Resident Council 39) Queen City Bike 40) Pendleton Neighborhood Council 41) Cincinnati Planning Commission 42) Cincinnati Enquirer Editorial Board 43) Cincinnati Democratic Party 44) The Sierra Club 45) All Aboard Ohio 46) Agenda 360 47) Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority Groups/People Endorsing a vote "YES" for Issue 9 are: 1) COAST 2) NAACP 3) Cincinnati Tea Party 4) Former Congressman and Mayor Tom Luken 5) Mark Miller and Wedemandavote 6) Councilman Charlie Winburn 7) Councilman Lemarque Ward 8 ) Southwest Ohio Green Party 9) Councilwoman Laketa Cole 10) Councilman Chris Monzel Is this an accurate list so far?? Are their any incorrect statements? *EDIT* I did not add those smiley faces

The COAST Mafia.

If you truly believe in something, it shouldn't be so hard to continue to explain why we are like other cities. The reality is we only have so many people that truly want Cincinnati to succeed, everyone else wants us to stay the same or fail because its easier for them to understand why. Finney fits perfectly into the second part of your statement. Smitherman is being used by Finney plain and simple. I don't know how Finney worked the charm on him but he did.

On Victory Parkway in East Walnut Hills next to the Taft intersection there are two "vote yes on issue 9 - No for the streetcar" signs in from of an apartment complex. I did see a couple vote no on issue 9 signs on Victory closer to Eden park. Those are the only signs I've seen on the issue. I imagine Smitherman is going to hit up the Avondale/North Avondale area pretty hard since he's got a good base there (Or used to)

What else is new? Did he smack his hand to his butt at people again like previous times? Or curse them out again?

Mike McConnell today said...... "It essentially says my 'way or the highway'. And this is what bugs me about the entire movement and I have to ask myself "Who do you think you are?" We have a whole body of people who give input, pro and con, on issues on whether it not it makes sense to build streetcars. Coast and NAACP think they are special. They suggest a ballot iniative that suggests everything has to run through them. If this were to pass, the public, which does not hold the hearing; the public that does not do the economic impact studies; the public that does not look around to see where rail services have or have not worked well. They, according to the new ballot initiative, will be making this decision. Who do you think you are to deny the process that the founding fathers put in place?" Podcast for today, hour 1, 17-20 minute mark

McConnell spent a few minutes on the ballot initiative today. I'll post what he said below

My opinion is that the streetcar advocates, myself included, have all the facts,figures, and tables going for them. But in general (not talking about the people on here because you guys I know have done your part), we've done a lousy job selling our product. I was just on the cincinnati.com article and people are asking the same generic questions about buses vs streetcars, anti-rail, rail is 19th century common misconceptions that they were asking months ago. We are sitting back and allowing 700wlw and everyone to continue to spew these half truths. I know people on here have done a great job at getting the word out, and I realize were up against 700 and the Smitherman agenda. But Somehow, someway, we have to get the people thinking and researching for themselves. To actually get them to read the studies, and not just listen to the hate on 700. If Smitherman and his goons have their way and put it on the November ballot, there's no way its passing at this rate.