PigBoy

I think I'll vote for 6. But I've never really thought much about the size of pizza slices.

The 75 bridge is unfortunate, but there's not much you can do about it. Stupid bridge. It interferes with the skyline view from the Art Institute, too! :x Other than that, I don't see anything too strange about those drawings, except... what the hell are those things swimming around in the river in the first one? They look like jellyfish with top hats.

^ You can be a snowbird! Nice pictures, moonloop. While the Phoenix area is sprawly and all that, I find the desert geography very interesting, and it's not such a bad place to visit.

And Carew has put on weight!

Pittsburgh's skyline is the bestest!

Graeter's ice cream was on the West Wing tonight, and was referred to as "a Cincinnati delicacy." The Democratic presidential campaign was in Dayton at the time. Unfortunately the ice cream made the candidate's son throw up later because he ate too much of it before dinner (or something like that).

Yes... you have 24 hours to edit and upload ALL your photos before we start rioting in the streets.

Great shots!

Madison has a quasi-pedestrian street that seems to work pretty well... although the foot traffic generated by the university is pretty much what fuels it. State Street is basically an ordinary street with "Do Not Enter" signs posted. The street portion is used by buses and bicycles, as well as the occasional police car or delivery vehicle. I imagine it must have seen a lot of traffic before they made it this way in the 70s (or whenever it was), since it connects the two major parts of central Madison, the University of Wisconsin and the state capitol. Anyway, I guess the arrangement doesn't really do a whole lot for pedestrians other than reduce the noise and general nuisance of traffic. Since it still has some vehicular traffic, you can't exactly walk down the middle of the street, but it's generally clear so you can at least cross the street at will. It's an interesting solution, but it's probably not something that can work in every place.

It would be interesting to list the streets that would make good pedestrian-only streets. I can't think of any particular good ones in Dayton, although I'm sure there are some...

Yay! I guess maybe the Dayton group is not so small... Dayton's got better representation here than the other second-tier Ohio cities, anyway. That must mean we're cooler. 8-) ..really? Thats interesting. sort of topoic, but what is urban geography about nowadays, or what are people who do urban geography "in to". I'm not sure how to describe it well, but I'd say that academic urban geography today is quite strongly into economic theory. As one professor here has stated, there's not really such a thing as Regional Geography anymore, which would have been like the urban geography of the past, where a goal was to describe the city by doing things like looking at urban forms (architecture, layout, etc.) or identifying different zones of activity in a city, or finding the metropolitan boundary as mentioned here, and so on and so on. That was the thing in the 50s and 60s (and maybe before), going along with the "quantitative revolution" in geography, which you can probably see would be a very descriptive kind of thing- defining the world with numbers, as it were. Probably the 70s is when it started becoming much more about economics, and certainly by now it's all about some political-economic theoretical perspective or other. I really have no idea of the exact kinds of things going on in modern urban geography because it just doesn't interest me, but I think that's the gist of it.

Thanks for those maps and things, Jeff. Attempts like that to locate boundaries and speheres of influence are really interesting to me, but unfortunately that puts me about 50 years behind the times in urban geography. I've come across maps like the "three/five deliniations" pair you posted, but they're always old, and nobody seems to do things like that anymore. Your maps reminded me of that statewide commuting map I made a while ago. It also helps give a sense of the general flow in the region, I suppose.

That's an interesting take, that Cin-Day will be an identity for those in the middle rather than for those at the two ends. Makes sense. Out of curiosity, is "Cin-Day" (or something to that effect) a phrase one might actually hear in those middle areas? I recall a few years ago a radio station which advertised itself as serving the "Cin-Day corridor." By the way, I'm glad to see another Dayton-area person here! :-) Dayton representation is a little scant on this forum, and some of us aren't even living there now. (I'm from Beavercreek but am currently in Wisconsin.)

By the way, PrfctTimeOfDay, where are you from/where do you live? I've gathered that you must be from somewhere in the general Cin-Day area, but I haven't yet deduced where from your posts so far.

By "look good on paper" I was mostly thinking in the sense of SSP/SSC penis-measuring contests. :-D (Should have said "look good on internet forums!") But yes, also just a little more recognition in the eyes of the general public, as UCplanner suggested. It is unfortunate that it means more sprawl, of course. If we could get a better connection without building a ton of new sprawl, or at least balance the sprawl with increases in the core parts of the cities, that'd be much better. Enter the wishes for rail connections, etc. Are you saying that the media sources in these cities follow stories in the other cities, or that you as a resident of one of the cities follow stories in the other cities? I hadn't thought about what news residents themselves follow, but certainly my sense of newspaper and TV news in Dayton is that Cincinnati is treated almost the same as any other city in Ohio; it's generally not "local" news along the lines of a story from, say, Centerville. One other question I wanted to raise but forgot, which was also mentioned in another thread: where do people think the current boundary between Dayton and Cincinnati is? Obviously it wouldn't be a hard boundary, but perhaps there is a sense of the general area where it might be. In another thread, I think Jeff suggested around Monroe and INK countered with Franklin. I don't really have a good idea of it as I've never really had much to do with the whole middle area.

Good pics... it's certainly looking a little rusty.

This has come up in a couple of recent threads and I thought it could use its own thread. It's sort of been done before here, but I was hesitant to bump that thread since it had posters who have vanished from the face of the earth, and it had started to stray from the topic a bit. What do people think? Should Dayton and Cincinnati be thought of as one metro? If not now, when do you think it will be? And when do you think such a combination will be official, if ever? And is this a good thing? Here's my opinion. Dayton and Cincinnati are a single region but not a single metropolitan area. They are very independent of one another, and I suspect it's mostly just the people in the middle who tend to think of them as a single metro. From my end I can say that Dayton seems to pay little attention to Cincinnati apart from the Reds and Bengals. In the Dayton newspaper, I'd say that a Cincinnati story written as a "local" story probably appears maybe only once a week on average. Speaking of the newspaper, helping Dayton maintain its own identity is the fact that it has its own media market. For the most part, Dayton's got its own set of cultural diversions, too. In sum, Cincinnati has little to do with life in Dayton, and I'd guess that the reverse is also true. As far as an official joining, it's inevitable that they will become a CSA some day, certainly by 2020 if not 2010. That's largely due to some of Dayton's south suburbs being in the Cincinnati metro, which means that commuting from those 'burbs gets counted as commuting between the metros. So all Dayton has to do is continue to sprawl outward without any real overall growth, and the inter-metro commuting levels will rise. Urbanization (sprawl) between the two cities continues to increase but has not made a solid connection yet. Jeff described the pattern in a recent post. And so I'd say that we should just think of ourselves as one region but not one metro. Certainly we in Dayton should see Cincinnati as a neighbor rather than some far-off city, but we should see it as separate because the fact is that it is separate. Of course, having the two cities joined in a metro would make us look good on paper. :wink: Other thoughts? And if somebody wants to break out the obligatory maps and graphics, that'd be super. I'll see if I have anything good.

I added up the numbers for the Detroit and Toledo MSAs... I don't know the area, of course, but the result was a lot smaller than I expected. That employment interchange thingy is only around 1.4. 3,003 workers (around 1%) went from the Toledo MSA to the Detroit MSA, and 1,302 workers (.4%) working in the Toledo MSA came from the Detroit MSA. Interesting note on Monroe County MI... when it comes to this measure for making CSAs, Monroe County in 2000 had an amazingly equal relationship to the Detroit and Toledo MSAs. It had 13,599 going to the Detroit MSA and 13,587 going to the Toledo MSA; and it had 5,078 coming from the Detroit MSA and 5,052 coming from the Toledo MSA. Almost exactly the same on both counts, but I guess the very slight edge to Detroit makes it a part of the Detroit CSA instead of Toledo. If we pretend for a moment that Monroe County is part of the Detroit MSA, that number for Toledo would rise from 1.4 to around 7. Adding in Ann Arbor would bring it up a little bit, but not much (I didn't actually do the calculations).

Do we have a thread on the whole Cincinnati-Dayton thing? It could make for an interesting discussion on topics like the last few posts about where the dividing line is.

They'd put it in a box in the attic until they're ready to use it! Or maybe in the basement (subway tunnels).

*fingers in ears* LALALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING LALALALALALALALALALAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

I should mention, suburb-wise, Beavercreek's annual thing is the Popcorn Festival, which is just a random theme attached to one of those stupid street fairs, and has no strong attachment to popcorn as Marion does. I hate even thinking about it, because I have irrational dislike for both the words "popcorn" and "festival," and having them together in one phrase... truly awful!

I calculated some numbers based on the criteria for combining metro areas into CSAs. Such a combination is based on the "employment interchange measure," which is the sum of the percent of workers in the smaller metro commuting to the larger metro and the percent of employment in the smaller metro accounted for by workers coming from the larger metro. If it's 25 or higher, they are automatically combined; if it's between 15 and 25, they are combined if local opinion favors it. In 2000, the measure between the Dayton and Cincinnati MSAs was about 9. I suppose by 2010 it could be up to 15, paving the way for the Southwest Ohio CSA of Doom.

They show up when I'm signed in...

I feel like cable-stayed bridges have become a little too popular, such that they are becoming a bit trite now as new "signature" bridges. All six designs can be seen here... I like number two best ("three-span thru arch").