PigBoy

I'll leave it to someone like Jeff to list Dayton's... I don't really have a good sense of what goes on apart from obvious things like the Fourth of July. If I may exit Ohio for a moment, the farmers' market in Madison held downtown on Capitol Square every Saturday draws a pretty impressive crowd for such a frequent event. I have no idea how to estimate the size, though. Enough to make it a pain in the ass to walk the circuit around the square, anyway. :shoot:

It's hard to say which direction has more commuters because you have to decide where the boundary between Dayton and Cincinnati is in order to know in which direction that boundary is being crossed. There's really not much commuting between the central parts of each metro, but of course there's the whole fuzzy area in between, and you can't see the patterns with the county-level data available from the Census. Some Dayton suburbs are technically in the Cincinnati metropolitan area, so officially you see a fair number of commuters going from (metro) Cincinnati to Dayton, but in reality we know that's not exactly the case. So I don't have a good guess for an answer other than to say that real crossover commuting is not especially significant in either direction; it's more that there is a common pool of residents in the middle from which both cities draw.

He should have some good photos! It sounded to me like he had some pretty grand plans.

Another great set of pictures! Definitely an interesting subject.

Yup, 'twas Saturday, in the early afternoon.

Yeah, looks nicer than the image of Trotwood in my mind. Thanks for the pictures!

Met up with RiverViewer the other day, who kindly carted my sister and I around a bit and showed us some of his favorite river views. Here's just a handful of pictures. Krohn Conservatory and bridges beyond One of the Twin Lakes in Eden Park Mt. Adams The full view View from near St. Rose church, if I recall correctly This is a really cool view, I think. The river, a hill, a hillside neighborhood, and the tops of skyscrapers, all at once! A bit later, some people flying kites Purple No need to caption this one R.I.P. RiverViewer's Montgomery Inn cap. The wind took it right off his head as we walked across the Taylor-Southgate Bridge! But what better place for RiverViewer to lose a hat than in the Ohio River? Made a stop at the overlook at Fairview Park after parting ways with RV. No way I was leaving without a panorama, of course!

The problem is that these CSA things weren't invented just for counting population, but that's all we city fanatics seem to like to do with them. So many such numbers are tossed around so often at places like SSP that I'm beginning to stop caring about them. The teachings of ColDayMan must be having an effect. :speech:

Nice tour! A few of those seem to have a bit of an Oakwood/western Kettering look to them. By the way, I love the shot with half a head in it! :lol:

Again, it's right there in the definition you posted yourself: (a) at least 25 percent of the employed residents of the county work in the central county or counties of the CBSA; I still can't find a census page telling me which ones are the central counties, although obviously it has to be more than just Hamilton. Based on the definition they give of "central county" I think it would be a county that has at least 50% of its population in the Cincinnati or Middletown UA. My best guess is Hamilton, Butler, Warren, and Clermont in Ohio, and Boone, Campbell, and Kenton in Kentucky. Thus, Grant County is in largely because of commutes to the three NKY counties; but your earlier example of Switzerland IN just barely misses the mark with 567 workers going to the central counties (it needs 572 or 573), so it's not included in the MSA. I've not done it myself, but I bet if you do the same addition for the other three counties (Adams, Highland, and Ripley), it'll fall short of the magic 25% in each case. And as I stated before, the 2003 MSA revisions are based on the very commuting data being discussed here... any place that meets the criteria based on these data is already a part of the MSA. So to address David's concern, a county doesn't get included into the MSA just because of commutes to the next county over unless the next county over is one of the "central counties" (which in the hypothetical example, Adams or Highland would not be).

unusualfire, are we talking about MSAs or CSAs here? You originally said MSA, and those counties do not meet the MSA criteria because 25% of the workforce does not go to the central counties. They would meet the CSA criteria as in the definition given in your last post, except that they'd have to first be micropolitan areas, which they're not. And that's why they're not part of anything. David, for numbers based on population density, check out the census Urbanized Area stats... those are what I like best for measuring population. I think Cincy is around 1.5 million.

^ Ha ha... those were the days. :lol: I do stuff like that in Google Earth, but as you can see from that screenshot the resolution is nowhere near high enough to make it look pretty.

I'm uncertain what you're trying to say here... the quote you posted (from the same PDF I've been looking at) confirms what I said, that the commuting has to be to the central county or counties. The trick is then to figure out what other counties besides Hamilton might be central counties. (I can't seem to find a list and the definition is a little vague.) It's only the CSAs that take into consideration commuting to the whole metro. In any case, if the four counties you've mentioned met the criteria, they would already be a part of the MSA, as the data are from 2000, predating the MSA revisions.

Clinton County isn't part of the Cincinnati MSA, though. It's the Wilmington micropolitan area, which is combined with the Cincinnati MSA to form the Cincinnati CSA in some process I don't know much about. Anyway, for the MSA it's definitely got to be a commute to the central county or counties... although it's possible that Butler County might also be considered a central county since Middletown is called a "principal city" in the metro.

Thanks for the ID on the old old post office.

The rule is that 25% need to commute to the MSA's central county (i.e. Hamilton), not just anywhere in the MSA.

Good topic. I'm not really sure for my particular home suburb Beavercreek, apart from some log cabin that I think is in a park. There are a few old farm houses still around within Beavercreek. One that I can think of off the top of my head is apparently from 1830, according to the tax records. I'll have to try to find out what the oldest building is. In Madison, Wisconsin, I could swear I read something saying what the oldest building is, but I can't remember. The first thing ever to be built in Madison was in the 1830s, so I'm sure nearly every place in Ohio has got it beat.

Here's a set from the Rhodes Tower and then some randomness, from a ColDayMan tour (Ohio resident's version) of Columbus the other day. So, yeah, starting from the top of the Rhodes Tower... Not Low Street Same with some OSU Did not crash into the building Not Straight Street As the pope might say, rooftastic Jeez, I forget what this is Something to the east, I believe I see Wendy's German Village Here there be lawmakers GermVil again Ohio Theatre Someone help me out here... Not Narrow Street How rotund 'Scrapers No caption They're on your side Seems I didn't post any LeVeque pics from the air, but here's one from the ground. ColDay took a picture, so I did, too. Not Back Street ColDay led me into the wonderful Supreme Court building. Here's where they lay down the law. Another room... Main corridor... sorry about the camera shake 19th Century Ohio 20th Century (1930ish) Ohio This looked a lot nicer in person From the top floor... That new condo tower will be within this view, right? COSI Bridges! No caption for this one either Enjoy, Cleveland Broad and High High Street (you may notice across this and other posts that I really enjoy this kind of telephoto shot) Statehouse again Some randomness now from the car. I forget now which exact neighborhood each of these is from, so someone else can identify if necessary. Ack... blurry. (On High Street) "It's a cock!" insists ColDayMan, after I casually referred to it as a chicken. (North Market, as is probably obvious) Here are three pictures that manage to make German Village look very uninspiring. The last four are basically uglier versions of things you'll find in ColDay's recent East Side thread. No more. Thanks to ColDayMan for the excellent tour!

"Condemned by CRACK" is my new favorite sign. Thanks for the pics!

Dayton's peak census population was in 1960: 262,332

Ghettotastic!

Took advantage of the sunshine today and did a whirlwind tour of some of the towns in Greene County (east of Dayton, for those who don't know). Below is pretty much every town of significance except Beavercreek (nothing worth photographing!) and Xenia (I've already done it). Nothing in-depth, but perhaps interesting nonetheless. I suppose I should have stopped for a photo of Clifton Mill, too. To begin, here is Fairborn (population around 32,000). Fairborn is actually a pretty large suburb of Dayton, but most of it isn't exactly pretty, so I just did the downtown for now. Fairborn's downtown is essentially what used to be the town of Fairfield, which merged with Osborn to form Fairborn. (The story on that is I'm sure interesting, what with the moving of Osborn, and it's probably not hard to find if you want to read about it.) Fairborn is mostly known as the city adjacent to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, making it the local community most closely tied to the base. It's also the home of Wright State University. Here's downtown: Nearby houses One of four thousand Foy's stores in downtown Fairborn. I suppose Foy's is another thing Fairborn is best known for locally. I assume this is the original Foy's. Fairborn skyline. :lol: Scary! On down the road is Yellow Springs (population around 3,700). Now, we've all seen Yellow Springs plenty of times here from various posters, but in case anyone somehow doesn't already know, Yellow Springs is the liberal hippie town that is home to Antioch College. And look, it's Yellow Springs' most famous current resident walking under a marquee advertising his own movie! Yup, it's Dave Chappelle himself, as seen in this crop of the previous photo. Sorry I don't have good pictures of him, but I didn't want to be an obnoxious stalker fan or anything. Look, children love Dave Chappelle! Okay, on to the other scenes. Presumably an old rail thing (or just something made to look like it) along the bike path. At Antioch Up next is Cedarville (population 4,000), home to Cedarville University, an ultra-conservative Christian University. (By the way, you might notice that colleges in Greene County fall on all parts of the spectrum: we have the nondescript state school, the ultra-liberal school, the ultra-conservative school, and the historically black schools.) Cedarville is also where Sen. Mike DeWine comes from. This is whatever little river runs through Cedarville. The Man imposing his rules That kid up there is in so much trouble (re: previous picture) But it's not all oppression in Cedarville. They do have the inter-web! Following Ohio 72 south brings you to Jamestown, population about 1,900. Not much to say about Jamestown, really. IMO its downtown looks nicer than Cedarville's, but I don't know if these photos give that same impression or not. The woman who is the pastor at this church was walking down the street and inquired about what I was taking pictures of. She mentioned that the church is celebrating its 200th anniversary (although not the building, which was built in 1875). Seen better days Where Socrates eats lunch. Wall! High school, I think Last is Bellbrook, population 7,000-ish. Today Bellbrook is very much a suburb of Dayton, but it still has an interesting downtown. What I find most interesting is that its downtown is separate from most of the rest of the modern city, which is probably more ties to a place like Centerville. Downtown Bellbrook still looks like a tiny rural village. Come in and drink freely of the water A nice little park So long from the real Greene County! (Not this Greene County.)

Excellent work! Thank you for continuing to bring the wonderful world of Hamilton to us.

Very nice! Melts in your mouth...

I think that's an important thing... some people seem to think that if they have to actually find the things to do, then the place must be boring. For some reason they expect every place to be like NYC, SF, Chicago, etc., where the "things to do" are in your face everywhere. If you make no effort to find something to do, then any place can be boring. Assuming we're talking about visitors, I also think that half the time people are "bored" because of prejudice. Their preconceived notion is that Cincinnati is not "cool," so they'll try their hardest not to have any fun or do anything interesting so that they can confirm that notion.