LesterLyles

Is there any kind of wakable route b/w Mt. Adams and downtown? I realize 71 makes such a walking route very difficult but I think an overpass of some kind would be very doable. Distance-wide the areas are so close to each other yet in reality, they seem so isolated. It would be nice to connect them somehow.

I don't think there will be a big market for families to be honest but they'll definitely be a few.

Along bui That would make snese. While people want to see this project go up asap (understandably so), its important to proceed slowly and let the Banks build up based on demand, interest, needs etc etc.

While I think Bortz brings up a good point about Cincy supporting all that residential capacity, one dynamic that I think will help are the empty nester baby boomers that don't want to necessarily leave Cincy. I think you will see a lot of demand from 60 somethings (and the ones willing to move are't usually the old foagie types). I also think it will give nice options to 20 and 30 something singles. It could be a really nice dynamic there.

I believe if you check my posts, I indicated that this was the way to go. Very smart approach by the developers. I will say that the figure mentioned in the article may be overboard. I don't want buildings to be too tall in that area and I do feel if you build to many resendential units, it will detract from other buildings. Still, resendential building is the key to downtown. The way to change the dynamic of downtown is to have people living there, not create gimmicky attratctions. Cincy already has plenty as far as cultural options...its time to get people living there now.

Aside from the point that people don't shop at department stores nowadays in the numbers that they used to (and that is pretty much the fault of the department stores), let's look at the numbers once again. How many downtown department stores does Cincinnati have? Two. Atlanta has zero. They have a little memorial to Rich's, which was their version of Shillito's in the old Rich's building that is now the Federal Building in Atlanta. Anyone in Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Indy, Louisville, or any other city want to give a count of how many downtown department stores their city has? And to be fair, they have to be downtown, not just urban, so if you're in New York, you can't count any higher than 14th street, or go past Wacker Dr. and the river if you're in Chicago, for example. agree 100%...since when is a department store a gage of a healthy downtown?

I think 6 and 7 story buildings would be more like it. Of all the blocks that are there, I think one central green space block (kind like a village green type thing) is all that is needed. Kind of like an Italian piazza with shops all around it.

Thx for the update McMciken. The square is really going to be great.

While I agree most people are idiots, that is no reason to keep unattractive surface lots> Those people can figure out how to park in a agrage. As far as maximizing revenues and minimizing things like greenspace/ historical archetecture/buildins etc, American cities have been making this mistake for years and that is why so many cities are "dead". The City has to be an overall positive experience which inclues maintenace of history and attractiveness of greenspace. The goal cannot just be to maximize revenues. If that is the only goal, noone will live there and noone will visit.

Good article. As an outsider, it really is funny reading this preceived battle b/w Cincy and NKY. Absurd is actually a better word. The fact that Ovation is largely resendential will only help downtown Cincy. Its not like people won't be allowed to cross the river. With all the residences being built both there and on the Cincy side, things look very positive. And I am sure a water taxi serice will be established (has it been already?) making it a 5 minute trip.

Lets all get along. The point is, there is plenty down there to get all kinds of poeple down there. Now lets get residents down there full tiem as well and the stores/restautants/bars will come.

Yes the surface lots are full but lets say you take 5 random surface lots; you can build a 5 story garage and eliminate 4 of them. You could a) proceed build in those spaces ot b) create a little green space. I hear ya that blank brick walls typically face the lots, which may seem strange for green space but NY is full of these spaces and they have become very creative with these spaces i.e. greenery, benches fountains etc etc. You get get very creative with the design. It certainly beats the look of a surface lot.

How come the screen sms so much smaller than the dream?

Not intending to sell Cincy short, believe me. I just don't want to see some kind of gimmicky monument/attraction like the Millenium bell. I just don't think Cincy should go that route. IMO Cincy has several "attractions" for everybody. They have major sports, a venue for indoor AND outdoor concerts, Music Hall for the Pops, Airnoff for shows, various museums and a strong concentration of quality restaurants...and still people don't come down. W/ the lack of transportation and the crime issues (both are not easy fixes) it makes it all themore imperative that you have people living down there. Some of you guys want to put something great there but I haven't heard great ideas. Like I said, a lot of the potentail urban attractions Cincy has already...its time to get people down there. As for the marina, that is a good idea but I thought there was some kind of marina that recently opened down there (not quite the banks but pretty close). I may be mistaken.

Yes it does. Are people from all over the country going to flock to our riverfront because of it's wonderful array of condos and service retailers? Or have I been mistaken about what this project is all about, and in actuality this is simply supposed to be a local neighborhood that will do nothing more than fill up some empty riverfront space? If so, then why bother making it a world-class development? My whole impression from years ago, when the concept was first conceived, was that the "fabulous Banks project" was supposed to be Cincinnati's new front door - the place that was supposed to draw tourists from all over the country. I don't see how condos and a park are supposed to do that. Any entertainment idea that is mentioned will be zapped away by Kentucky and put in Ovation. You know it's true. If Hard Rock WERE to decide to come to the area, it would be wooed by Newport or Covington, and most likely be built there because Cincinnati would sit on it's hands, wasting time - and Kentucky would *snap* their fingers and work out a deal in no time flat. If an ESPN Zone were to look at the area, same thing would happen. Why? Because Kentucky knows how to get stuff done, and get it done fast. All Cincinnati knows how to do is dicker around and let opportunities pass it by. Remember the aquarium? Originally was proposed for the Banks. Same with the Hofbrauhaus. So yes, Cincinnati needs a major attraction at the Banks - something year round. Something unique that people all over the world could see, and think "Hey, that's in Cincinnati." So why hasn't it brought me down there? I could care less about going to the stadiums. First, I hate sports, so they hold no appeal to me. Second, the fact that the county was blackmailed by a bunch of spoiled crybaby millionaires who threatened to move the teams out of the city if new stadiums weren't built, kinda secured my attitude that I would never step foot inside either one. I haven't, and I won't. The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me. And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be. The river does nothing for me anymore. What is the allure? It's water. But it's not a beachfront, and it's not a huge lake that you can go sailing on. All you basically do is watch it flow downstream, then look across the river at Kentucky, and watch barges go by. So the parks don't do anything for me, either. I've already been to Yeatman's Cove and Sawyer Point countless times. It's nice, sure - but not something I feel like driving 22 miles to see more than once or twice a year. Anyway, that's my two cents. It's a very unpopular opinion on these boards, and I've been blasted for it in the past. So I'll just shut up and let you guys carry on. Couple of points here: 1) Lets clarify the term "attraction". If you are talking about an ESPN Zone or a Hard Rock as an attraction or some other fun restaurants, than yes I agree that they are important factors in creating a successful area and I think they will come if things are done properly. IMO, though, to create a overall vibrant environment on the banks, its important to get people living there first (more on this later). But if you are talking about an attraction that will get people across the country visiting Cincy, I think you are dreaming. What are you expecting, a St. Louis Arch? Its not going to happen. 2) Lets clarify the ultimate goal here. As I touched on, I personally think the goal should be a vibrant, fun area on the river that gives residents an great option and gives visitors a fun experience and positive feeling of the city (to think people will come JUST to see the banks is asking too much, IMO). I'm am telling you that a key to creating such vibrant urban areas is having people living in those areas. Downtown and midtown Manhattan, for example, are dead b/c very few people live there. This goes for many American cities as well b/c people live outside of the city. Contrast this w/ areas in NY like Upper West and Greenwich Village, which are residential urban areas. Or how about any number of European cities for that matter. People are living in those cities. I realize public transport is an issue in this as well but the lack of a system in Cincy makes it even more critical that people live down there. 3) The answer? IMO, the Banks should have buildings, which have 4 or 5 stories. They should be condos/lofts/living spcaes for the most part with the first floor (and 2nd floor possibly as well) open for retailers, restaurants, clubs, cafes etc etc. This is the European urban model and its very self sustaining. The residents are the ones that give the restaurants, clubs and stores steady business. If people are living there, businesses will come, believe me. Restarants will open, stores will open. And when these bshops, restaurants, bars open people from the burbs will come. Friends and families of the residents will come and visit and with that, you will create a vibrant urban environment. It should be noted that the stadiums are indeed attractions. 10 times a year, Paul Brown gets b/w 30 and 40 thousand, and 81 times, GAP gets on average 20,000 people down there. Now they leave, b/c there is nothing to do but even if a few hundred from each event trickle into the shops and stores, you will get a vibrant atmosphere in various places. And I dodn't even count the Freedon Center, which will reap the benefits when there are things surrounding it.

What an opportunity the city has in front of it. To have that kind of undeveloped space so centrally and perfectly located (b/w a central business area and a river) is a dream for developers. While retail is obviously important, IMO the key is get people living downtown and specifically at the banks. It seems Cincy has been doing a good job of this in recent years with all the condo renovation and construction. If the resedential part of the Banks project is done well, people will live there, and if people live there, the business/retail and entertainment will take care of itself through market forces. I don't think the banks necessarily needs an "attraction". B/w the two stadiums, the river (and future river park) and the Freedom Center, there is plenty to bring people down there.

Great thread here, guys. As a NYer who likes to keep track of the happenings in Cincy, this board has been grat and it seems the square is the most exciting tangible project at this point. While it may not be as "open" as the classic European squarea and it previously was, I think the new square will look fabulous. It reminds me of Bryant Park in NYC which is a gorgeous square with a lot of activity. They seem to be planning a lot of potential activities (restaurant, screen, i.e. skating, childrens area) and I think it will be a true center of activity for the city.

FIrst time poster here. To give some background on myself, I live in NY and love cities and city planning and have traveled extensively in Europe and the US. I may be moving to Cincy w/in the next year so I have kept an eye on this site for a while (which is great by the way). Back to this topic: I agree with the Last Don but I also see the need for garages and maximizing space. Certainly lawns don't necessarily have to be "usable" and can be only for aesthetic purposes. In fact I think Cincy needs more lawns and greenery in the downtown. But I also think that the more 4 and 5 story parking garages that go up, the better. Cincy has way too many parking "lots" and not enough garages and underground facilities. If you look at the satellite view from google, it seems there is a parking lot on every other block....not very attractive. I bet we can eliminate 70% of these "lots" by creating a few multi-story garages and underground facilities. I'm surprised this isn't discussed more.