LesterLyles

jmicha, great post. the buzz regarding the Banks and park are undeniable and to see so many families and kids down there is simply awesome. I moved here 4 years ago and one of the more puzling characteristics was this anti- city vibe from the suburbs. I think the Square started to break down those walls and the Banks/park are totally knocking them down. Great to see. One question I have; what is the hold-up for the next phase. I certainlty understand the hold-up with regards to the Bnaks but I am not sure why they aren't continuing park construction. While I realize the park isn't yet funded for all 5 phases, surely they have the funding for the 2nd phase. Any info on when construction will start up again?

so did I hear correctly that phase 2 starts this June?

That brings up a good point. The piece of land just west of the labrynth but east of the park hopefully will get started ASAP. Also the area just east of the Main Street fountain. It seems to have to wait for phase 2 before those pieces are started.

I think some greenery and trees will be added as construction contines. I alluded to how sterile and uninviting TKILTBAG seems. Clearly there can be some kind of trees or greeneryplanters used on the sidewalks but also many of the restaurants can add there own smaller planters to green thinsg up. As the trees grow, it will get better; will probably be a few years before it ruly fels warmed up.

good responses so far. Seriously, the condescending attitude from many on here is so silly.

The Applebys comment is just plain stupid. Comments like that are as short-sighted and negative as the many people in the community that hate downtown and the negative hipsters that populate it.

I have been to one for dinner and plenty of kids wer there. Heck they have a Kid's Korner menu. I will agree that it turns into more of a bar later but I would say it is more family that Holy grail or TKILTBAG. Crave seems like it will be an upper scale more eclectic menu and not too kid geared.

if that is indeed true, that is a great choice. That is a true family option that we were talking about earlier on this thread but isn't necessarily a lower chain. I would say it is an upper scale cheese-cake facotry which I think is ok for that spot.

Rocky, clearly you get the idea. I don't mean to complain because I am not a huge fan of being critical prior to the completion of the project. It is very possible that they are waiting for Crave to finish to put anything in. But in looking at it now,the sidewalk clearly needs something along the flowered planter lines. And geez, can Toby Kieth do a little better with their outdoor dining barriers? They are using ones from the sidewalk with metal chairs and tables. No charm and extremely uninviting.

I think the 2nd street streetscape leaves a lot to be desired at this pont; seems sterile to me. It doesn't help that Toby Keith's looks a bit chainey with very little attention to quality. To warm things up, do you think some planters could be used? They would be permanent and could replace the need for those steel barriers they use during Reds games and really warm things up. See link on a potential planter; I really hope they consider this: http://www.streetscapes.biz/catalog/manufacturers-tournesol-planters-urban-square-urban-square-planter-fg-1824-pi-5059.html

With 2 designated restaurant spaces in front of the Freedom center, why did the park designers feel they needed a restaurant on the Park grounds i.e. Morlein. Was it so that a restaurant could specifically connect to an event lawn? I guess my point is, why couldn't they have located Morlein (or whatever flagship park restaurant was chosen) in one of the spaces front of the Freedom Center and created more greenspace. My fear is that with all;l the restaurants opening plus Morlein, those spaces will remain vacant....thoughts?

Yes the KY riverfront does not get enough criticsm as far as coverage IMO. Even prior to the Banks, Cincy's was so much prettier (at least a wall was built up in addition to Serpentine and Yeomans). I actually am not anti-KY pro Ohio by any stretch (I actually find NOTL fills a great family niche) but geez, let's hold off on the kentucky kudos untill they address the horrific river front area.

yo, where should I start? nobody will fund a large Arena without a regular tenant - it happened in Kansas City the only way we get that is NBA and the 36 home games - add St Louis, Columbus that did it with NHL, not NBA UC's 15 home games will not cut it- what about Louisville? the shoe is a great on campus arena - not really, in fact UC folks have begun chirping about new digs It has to be large enough (25k+) to attract regional NCAA events and headliner acts - 18k to 20k would be fine Convention Center expansion facet would make it interesting for the larger cause - agree 100%

you should amend your last statement by sayin "In Cincinnati, it's hard to convince...." Not true in many more open-minded areas including cities in Ohio and Indiana let alone the rest of the country.

can tell you if there had been a major spike, it would be front page news. Hack OTR can have a bad 3 day stretch and it is front page news. There is absolutely a double standard. And yes, the trend is in fact downward looking at the longer terms numbers.

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general. Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue. A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief.

Was in Columbus this weekend for the games. The city was absolutely buzzing with the tourney gamaes and obviously 80 degree weather didn't hurt. Nationwide arena is stunning and the arena district has a lot going on and is nicely located b/w downtown and SHort North. Made everything very walkable and created a real buzz. In talking to a veteran MSU fan, he said Columbus and Indy are two of the better locations while places like Dayton and the MEadowlands are two of the worst. The isolation doesn't allow for congregations before and after the game and spreads everyone out. This is why Butler/Warren County would not be a good option IMO. I actuallly think the elbow of Central Parkway could work.

Sherman, that is why I pitched a convention expansion. If you it is ownetd a a City/county owned sports authority, they will reap the benefits from the revenue generated versus the stadiums, which makes brown rich while we pay. I think many of these muni sports organizations have been successful from an arena standpoint. On 4th street I don't believe any of those structures are historic but I may be wrong on that; they certainly don't look too historic. With regards to UC or XU, I don't think they have had much motivation in playing at US Bank arena. Doesn't add much. But an realier poster brought up Vsome other BE teams as ana example and I look at Villanova as a successful model that has an on campus arena but plays 3 games at the state of the art Wells Fargo Center which is 20k. They generate a ton more money and can sell out when n/c they schedule big opponents there. If UC or XU played the shootout there and maybe 1 or 2 other big games a year, they would make a lot more money and I think fans would be a lot more motivated to go versus US BankArena where the environment is so damn bland and sterile. The Philly arena has a huge bar area with a live band and amazing food options. It is a great expereince and i would love to see something like that here; host maybe 4 or 5 UC/XU games a year and maybe 1 Miami game as well.

The elbow on Central parkway is a possibility as it could certainly be a catalyst for that section of town but I still think one of the benefits of 4th street is a connection/additional space to the covention center. BC would be terrible.

Yo, I thought of that spot in Newport as well and that actually would work well too but as someone that first and foremost believes in strengthening the Cincy urban core as the key driver to the region, I would still prefer it downtown. Unusualfire, the arena would in fact be a way to focus on more convention space. If you connected it with a skywalk, you would have additional space that compliemtns the existing space well. As for your Butler/Warren idea, I can't picture a less productive location for an arena than Butler or Warrem. I agree a football stadium can operate effectively in the middle of nowehere but arenas , for the most part, are all located in urban areas and stimulate those specific neigborhoods. They would boost tourism, hotel ocupancy, restaurants, bars, andoverall activity; you would wouldn't see nearly that boost in Warren county where people would essentially have to drive to the arena to and from their hotels, essentially parking, attending the event and leaving. West End could be an otion to develop that area but again, it seems like it would be more of an in and out type of solution. I certainly would prefer that to Butler county.

Flyboy, a few points: - I agree 100% on condos. Should US Bank be torn down, condos would make perfect sense in that spot. -Agree 100% on Broadway Commons; that would have been ideal for an arena and/or yes potentially a 20k soccer stadium (that could have been used for HS football as well) but as you mentioned, that ship has sailed. - I do think Cincy needs a 20Kish more state of the art arena to attract some larger higher profile events. I think there are several 10kish arenas in the area (UC, XU, NKU, Gardens) that building something smaller is not in our best interest (although if UC wants to build something for themsleves to replace 5/3, more power to 'em.). Again, if you can include additional convention space as justification not to mention all the additional events we may host, perhaps the idea is more attractive to our residents, who will obviously and understandably have stadium finance fatigue (thank you Mr. Brown).

I was at US Bank Arena this past weekend and while it may not be as outdated as some other 70's era arenas (see Brendan Byrne/ Continental in NJ), it really is leaps and bounds behind the modern arenas that are being built. As March madness is upon us, I can't help but think of al;l the vents Cincy loses on b/c of the arena, often to many cities like Columbus, Cleveland, Indy and Louisville. We are talking about millions of $$. Not too mention the location of the arena is simply horrid given the baseball stadium prximity; the access is horrible and it looks too cramped. So what is the process on a new city arena? Obviously no NBA/NHL hurts but perhaps we should look at Kansas City as a model with the Sprint Center. As an idea for location, why not consider the square block b/w 4th and 5th Plum and Elm (currently a lot accross from the convention Center). Pehaps it can be built as an extension of the Convention space with a connection between the two locations (either underground or a skywalk) similar to how other cities have connected arena/stadium space to their convention centers. Such location would include tearing down a garage and some businesses i.e. hustler would have to relocate but I think it would be a stellar location and could jumpstart that end of downtown.

While I really do dislike LaRosas, I think a flagship location down there would be very appropriate and do well. I also can see why Holy Grail wouldn't exactly be a family type place on game-days and I think the Banks could use at least one. I really wouldn't want a national chain in there but a loca one would work. I remeber Buddy LaRosa had an italian market at one of his west side market which was actually pretty nice but underappreciated by the Green township clientele. Something like that could do better downtown as part of the concept.

what will become of the two spaces in front of the freedom center that are supposed to be restaurants. Are we really to expect two more restaurants there?

Curious what you mean by awful formal education? Is it the schools forging these attitudes? I tend to think it's more the general attitudes forged from generations and propdaogatedreinfoced by talk radio.