JeTDoG

Not that this is exactly RTA news, but it's been announced that Ron Tober will be leaving CATS at the end of this year. For anyone who thinks his tenure at CATS has been days of wine and roses, I refer you to these articles: http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2007/08/13/daily22.html: "Tober's tenure has at times been rocky... cost overruns and construction delays... the 9.6-mile line, originally projected to cost $227 million, is expected to be completed for $462.7 million" http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A148148: "signs that CATS is cutting corners and scaling back on trolley service... could reduce trolley ridership by more than 60 percent" http://takebackcharlottemecklenburg.com/_wsn/page6.html: "Tober admitted to Charlotte City Council that he purposely omitted cost overruns from CATS budget of 2005" Understand this -- I'm not posting this with the intention of crucifying Ron Tober - I never met the man. However, before the conversation heads back in the direction of "if Tober was still here, everything would have been perfect", I want some folks to realize that THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET, not for us, and apparently not for Charlotte, either. I will say that Ron Tober's history seems to be more involved with implementing rail plans rather than actually sustainably running them, and a "rip & run" strategy like that I do have a real problem with. It's easy to spend a pile of (someone else, i.e., federal ) cash and put an infrastructure in place if you ignore operational costs, leaving that for "the next guy". Yes, TOD around rail lines is a great idea, and should be a no-brainer, and RTA should do everything in its power to encourage such development, but RTA is a transit agency, not an urban development agency. They can be a catalyst for development, but not a prime mover. TOD pressure needs to be put on the city and county as much as anywhere else.

damn, noozer, you beat me to it... this woman's a moron of the highest degree if she thinks that's the case... RTA's bike rack usage statistics can readily point out the fallacy in her thinking

this isn't belaboring the point, it's useful discussion :-) This revised routing also resulted in a substantial change in the timing of the route. Based on the old schedule, if a bus leaving northbound at 12:20 should have been in your area at 12:28, then according to the new schedule, with departure times of 12:08 and 1:08, the bus would have been in that same area at 12:16 and 1:16 (T + 8 minutes). So, it's possible that the bus that you thought never showed was the 12:08 that you barely missed, and the 1:15 bus was the 1:08 more or less on time (since you had changed positions to closer to the start of the route, so it would be somewhat less than 8 minutes to your new location). I'd still ask RTA to check it out if I were you, though.

I rarely take the bus in Cleveland but I thought RTA bus drivers could do the same. No? sidebar: thiese google tagged messages are starting to trip me out. This is what is on my screen now - mss proposed ohio cleveland www rta line com There are flag stop regions in the outlying areas (such as Chagrin east of Warrensville), but for the most part, operators are instructed to only stop at assigned stops. Considering some of the behavior I've seen people attempting in some of the Euclid Corridor construction areas, "deemed safe" could be open to a lot of opinion, and could have a huge potential liability (I'd love to see some knucklehead try to flag down a #39F on the highway!). Not saying it can't be done, but trying to point out why it wouldn't/isn't. Expansion of this policy might be a reasonable suggestion to bring up to the CAB.

not to make excuses, but this may serve to explain things a little bit as far as your particular situation: http://www.riderta.com/nu_ridersalerts_list.asp?listingid=880

No offense, but I seriously doubt people are going to be looking at all of those things on the front of the bus that a waiting passenger is expecting will stop. Only at the last minute, when they realize the bus isn't stopping the waiting passenger might try to look for that information on the front of a bus. But I suspect a non-stopping bus would be going too fast for a good look at the coach and block numbers. A better option would be to have that information shown on the back of the bus in big enough lettering/numbering so that the bypassed passenger can still see it once the shock of what happened has worn off and the realization sets in that the driver needs to be reported. None taken... what I was describing was a best-case scenario of the available information. Coach numbers are actually painted on the back of every vehicle (looking for them becomes second nature after you're seen a few), and some vehicles will display the route number on a rear-mounted LED sign (although some just display "RTA"). Block number is of tertiary importance, and helps most in cases of a bus running off-schedule so far that it's out of sequence -- date/time & coach number will usually garner results, since every district knows, or can find out, which driver is assigned to which coach. I would hope a waiting passenger would note the route number on approach of a bus that passes them by, especially if the stop in question services multiple routes (there's only one occasion where I've gotten on a wrong bus at a stop because I was expecting one route and got another one, and the fault was entirely mine).

jpop, any specifics on which bus you were waiting for, and where/when you were waiting? A bus driving past you is NEVER acceptable, so long as you are at a valid stop. Stops noted on the HTML and PDF schedules are timepoints (or subsets of timepoints) only; it would be unreasonable to expect that EVERY stop be listed for every route, as that would likely result in some of these schedules (#6, anyone?) needing to be printed in 2pt type to fit on anything smaller than a tabloid-size, double-sided sheet of paper. ANY situation where a bus drives past a valid stop and doesn't pick up a passenger needs to be reported to RTA. The basic information that will help to resolve the situation is: date & approximate time coach (vehicle) number, which is painted on the vehicle itself, in multiple locations, and is normally 4 digits route number, which is displayed on the LED sign block number, which is in the lower left corner of the windshield as viewed from the outside of the vehicle, and is 3-4 digits, usually with a prepended X in the first field if < 4 digits This allows RTA to narrow down the who, where, & when of the incident, and address it accordingly. Less information results in more legwork needed for the investigation, but doesn't make it impossible. Also, for incidents that happen on a vehicle, the operator's ID number (displayed on their name plate -- and if the name plate is not visible, that also needs to be mentioned) will immediately narrow down the "who" of the situation.

I agree that it's inexcusable for there to have been no notification of any kind on RTA's web site, or on the Answerline. However, I am curious to know more about your "about $2" solution. Got any particular choices in mind? Keep in mind that we're talking web site, e-mail, text message, maybe even text-to-speech for those who don't have text message capable cell phones (yes, there's plenty of those folks, especially among RTA's transit-dependent ridership), along with all the concomitant record keeping that would accompany such a solution, and the variables of who gets notified when (if, for example, I'm a West side bus rider who only works third shift, what do I care if the Blue & Green Lines are down during rush hour?). I'm not downplaying your suggestion, but I'd like you to put some meat on the bones rather than focusing on a cheap sound bite... the "$2 solution" comment is in response to my understanding that RTA has installed new software that powers the paratransit scheduling, tracks buses real time, etc. my understanding was that this software has functionality that can be used for email alerts, based on real time information. now, if the system doesn't work as is, obviously it won't be of much help to provide real time information to ridership via email. but, it seems that this project is at least 2 years old, and although the total project cost is much more than $2, this incremental functionality should, imo, be online by now. Another very simple and "$2 solution" : i'd also be happy if RTA just used their existing email list for major announcements about service disruptions. RTA is still collecting email addresses at this page: http://www.riderta.com/maps-schedules.asp but, i don't think there has been any kind of mass email in a long time, and i used to receive them more regularly. as far as other solutions go, i can only comment as a rider as for what i'd like to see in cleveland, some of this from similar systems i've seen when riding and using other transit systems. email and text alert systems exist, so i'd expect someone at RTA to be on top of them and have a plan for implementation ("These are the top 3 systems, i've been demoing them, these are the costs, and this is when it is going to work in cleveland"). i don't have access to the many transit publications, nor do i attend any conferences or socialize with employees from other transit agencies around the world, so i don't hold myself out as an expert, except that it is being done in other transit agencies now. now, a quick google search of "automatic email transit alerts" brought back these few results: http://www.dart.org/govdelivery/emailupdates.asp (so RTA can talk with Dallas and see what they are using) http://www.soundtransit.org/x1776.xml (allows for signup as well for alerts) http://www.govdelivery.com/info/RTC.pdf this product basically just reads a website and then emails the new content. so by segregating the RTA news section into critical news, regular news, rail news, bus news or whatever, all that would have to be done is to post the news in the right section, have riders sign up for what they are interested in, and the info is emailed. i don't know how much it costs. And you, of course, have sent this information to someone at RTA, rather than just posting it here? I know that RTA uses their e-mail list for sending of their regular semi-monthly newsletter, and they have also used it on certain occasions as a broadcast system. I believe it takes about 4 hours to distribute to the entire list ( > 6000 recipients), so obviously there is the balance that needs to be struck between using it to communicate a system problem while making sure the information is still timely by the time it reaches everyone.

I agree that it's inexcusable for there to have been no notification of any kind on RTA's web site, or on the Answerline. However, I am curious to know more about your "about $2" solution. Got any particular choices in mind? Keep in mind that we're talking web site, e-mail, text message, maybe even text-to-speech for those who don't have text message capable cell phones (yes, there's plenty of those folks, especially among RTA's transit-dependent ridership), along with all the concomitant record keeping that would accompany such a solution, and the variables of who gets notified when (if, for example, I'm a West side bus rider who only works third shift, what do I care if the Blue & Green Lines are down during rush hour?). I'm not downplaying your suggestion, but I'd like you to put some meat on the bones rather than focusing on a cheap sound bite...

umm, KJP, while I don't disagree with the majority of what you're stating, your revenue figures seem to be a bit inflated... according to RTA's 2006 Annual Report available at http://www.riderta.com/annual/2006/, their total 2006 sales tax revenue was $168,615,372; total revenue from all sources for the year was $248,669,803

as ohiohub.com appears to be down right now (suffering from overloading?), the study can also be found at this less-user-friendly URL: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/theproject.html

a few points to raise... while Corner Alley did decide to pursue other sponsorship opportunities, the trolleys will continue to be free for the time being, as the new sponsorship is coming from the City of Cleveland (some of the trolleys are already decorated with the new artwork)... I believe it's one of Mayor Jackson's youth anti-violence campaigns that's taken up the mantle metrocity, if I were you, I'd complain to the powers-that-be at CTA... a broken-down bus is one thing, but NO WAY should passengers be waiting on the side of a highway for the replacement... you wait IN the bus, unless there's a compelling reason (such as fire :-o ) not to 3231, I was about to raise that same point... also, if anyone wants to view RTA's recent budget history, and their planned 2008 budget, the preliminaries have been posted at http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1065 urbanlife, current cost/hour of service is estimated at $103.05 for 2007, increasing to an estimated $105.63 in 2008; while this is defined as total operating expenditures/total hours of service, and thus includes more than just personnel expense (although personnel is the bulk of the cost), one can't necessarily go backwards and say that each additional hour can be costed (?) at the same rate, as off-hours service may prove to be more expensive (due to greater expense per employee, even with fewer employees -- third shift carries a premium), and could actually drive up the average cost per hour also, clvlndr, your observations about the full parking lots at Shooters & Powerhouse won't necessarily translate into train riders -- we'd all LIKE them to, but the average sheep is lazy enough that walking across the Center Street Bridge wastes time that they could use sucking down another flavor-of-the-month CH Jake, you raise an excellent point about the incremental loss in ridership, which is something every transit agency struggles with -- unfortunately, real butts in the seats speak way louder than potential ones... yes, it's a chicken & egg problem, and one that I don't think there's any easy solution for in our tight economic times

'scuse me? I don't believe I ever used the "innocent babe-in-the-woods" comment, so please don't put words in my mouth I can't speak for some of the larger projects, since they were before my time here, but the ridership numbers didn't point to continuation of all night New Years Eve and late-night summer rail as being cost effective -- this was not a "witch hunt" decision finally, as far as Ron Tober, it appears you're as much his champion as you accuse me of being a Joe Calabrese apologist, and I would counter to say that just because Tober is there when the project succeeds doesn't mean that he was wholly responsible for, or even contributed to, that success -- there is a very interesting article in this month's Metro Magazine that points to the success of rail in Charlotte while it's failing in Raleigh-Durham; without quoting the article, suffice to say that the Charlotte-Mecklenburg County regional government climate, and the area's general economic vitality (both of which were under way before Tober got there), went a LONG way toward making that project a success what I'll be interested in seeing is how Tober's administration fares (no pun intended) once the line goes into full operation, from an ongoing day-to-day operational standpoint; of course, by then, Tober will likely have moved on to somewhere else

your answer, which is yes, can be found here: http://www.euclidtransit.org/ECTP_documents/Community%20Update%20022807%20MJS.pdf to sum up, the downtown platforms will be the largest in terms of footprint, with size decreasing as travel proceeds further east... pages 23-33 of the above-linked presentation detail the station designs

figured I'd post these anyway, my view of the E 40th platform: because someone had asked about them, a look at the trees in front of the AMI campus: and the platform near Fenn Tower, which looks like it might be the next one on the completion list:

Having gone out to E 40th yesterday around lunchtime (and gotten beat to the camera click by gildone, whose photo was much better than my cellphone shot), and then taking the 9X outbound last night, I too was amazed by the amount of progress that has been made. There are two more platforms in the vicinity of CSU and slightly east that will probably be completed in the next 60 days, and massive amounts of concrete roadbed have been poured, even in the E 9th - E 22nd stretch (although there is construction on E 21st south of Euclid, next to Rascal House, that looks like it will be there for a while). Hopefully, the Clinic can get over their case of cranial-rectal inversion and allow their portion of the project to proceed. If it's all going on around them, they'd look foolish to put any (no pun intended) roadblocks in the way. On a side note, Cafe Ah-Roma makes KILLER iced coffee, and their spicy turkey feta wrap is fantastic! By the by, their business is hardly "suffering", when I was in there, the line was backed up enough that they had order runners, including the MOD, coming from behind the counter to pre-take orders... I guess a little thing like an arrest is good for business...

yes, it's slightly off topic, but I believe very germane to a thread as polarized as this: It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. --Teddy Roosevelt, 1910, speaking at The Sorbonne now then, back to our regularly scheduled debate...

thanks, KJP... coming from one such as you, with your background and gift for the written word, that is indeed high praise... I was once a youth as "passionate" (some would say hot-headed) as CTF, but time, experience, and the guiding hand of those who came before me served to temper and direct that passion... of course, some folks in local gub'mint ain't seen nuthin' yet!!! :evil: :shoot: :shoot: :evil: :whip: :whip: :whip:

full story at http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-2/1182933390133010.xml&coll=2 best comment is at the end of the story, when Beckenbach states, "I think the next five years are going to be just as exciting . . . on Euclid Avenue." Quadrangle, Inc.'s web site is http://www.thequadrangle.org/

actually, I was referring to the grander scale of "on the planet"... you're 23 years old, and while your enthusiasm is admirable, your social skills as exhibited here leave a bit to be desired rebuilding, as in ripping the lunar landscape that was the former Euclid Avenue down to its foundation and completely building it back up -- work that would have NEEDED to be done whether the transportation alternative implemented was a bus above, rail above, or rail below re-engineering, as in use of modern materials rather than toothpaste-consistency asphalt with a crappy sub-base (take a look at the curbside of Ontario southbound south of Superior, while it's still there, and you'll see what heavy traffic does to a poorly constructed road), not to mention the signal prioritization that should improve the speed and efficiency of transit flow along the new avenue yes, there was a streetcar line down Euclid Avenue -- BEFORE... there were also horse-drawn carts that traveled a dirt path at one time, if we want to get really nostalgic cite your source (primary, not other posts/posters on UO) as far as Joe Calabrese being a "rail hater"... it's a comment I've heard many times, with little hard evidence to back it up, and simply saying something doesn't make it so (would that it did, we'd already have flying cars) as far as his not doing a lot of lobbying for rail along Euclid (another unsubstantiated claim, and it's always difficult to prove that someone DIDN'T do something), he likely didn't, as the funding being offered didn't allow for it... had Euclid Corridor funding not been pursued, it's likely we'd all be here saying "why didn't we get that money when we had the chance? instead, we've got NOTHING!" CTF216, I feel your pain, truly I do, but we do need to deal with the reality of the situation... ECP is coming to pass, so going forward, we need to be certain that the planning and development that takes place along the improved corridor follows the best tenets of TOD, and that future policies (zoning, PILOT incentives, etc...) encourage growth that can be sustained and supported by the available transportation option... by the same token, there are other areas where rail is still a viable option (commuter links to the west, south, and east), and the existing rail system does present opportunities for improvement... funding is the first step, and that starts with the people who hold the purse strings, who are decidedly NOT RTA (think State Legislature)

so then lobby for a federal grant to extend the light rail instead of a glorified bus route. typical "cant do" defeatist attitude that exists here. i never received an allowance as a kid either. "if you build it they will come" but alas, traffic isnt bad here and no one takes the rapid so whats the point? lets just stick to the defeatist cant do attitude that we love so much here in northeastern ohio Son, you obviously haven't been here too long, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's make a few things perfectly clear: The Euclid Corridor project is far more than the construction of "a couple fancier bus stops along Euclid". It is the complete re-thinking, re-engineering, and rebuilding of a major transportation corridor for the area, from the ground (and below) up. Dismissing it through minimalist statements such as yours demonstrates a distorted perception of the facts. What makes you think that lobbying wasn't/won't be done for additional projects? The pot is only just so big, and sometimes it's worthwhile to know when to walk away. Had all of our efforts been directed toward just getting what we wanted, Cleveland might have been left with nothing, and there's no way you can convince me that a cratered, desolate Euclid Avenue would be better than the rebuilding that's going on now. Look at some of my prior posts - lumping me in with anything resembling a defeatist attitude is sheer folly. I left Buffalo, NY because of the perceived defeatist attitude among "leaders" there. I am, however, a realist. "why is it that a rapid transit system over 50 yrs old has less coverage than newly built systems"? You've just answered your own question. One of the disadvantages of rail infrastructure is that it can't easily be moved to adapt to changing lifestyles/population patterns. Check out the systems in the cities you mentioned 50 (or even 20) years from now, and you may find some of the same concerns. Also, with regards to St. Louis, I had the occasion to strike up a spontaneous conversation one day (while waiting for the Waterfront Line) with a couple of tourists from that very city, and they couldn't help but mention how much they enjoyed or transit system, mentioning that they hadn't rented a car for the long weekend they were planning on spending here, so let's not begin to suggest that any solution somehow functions as a "universal truth"... clvlndr, I'll keep my comment brief, as I do feel you and I share some common frames of thought, but I would respectfully disagree with your assessment of a subway working "to curb at least some of the embarrassing, widespread blight" -- rather, I think it would keep it hidden from those who would board at the outskirts of town, ride into downtown, and never have a clue what it is that is (or isn't) going on above them. RTA is still working with integrating inherited, disparate systems (both bus and rail) with individual histories than it has as a unified organization. Combine that with strong neighborhood-level politics and a non-regional government infrastructure with far too many chiefs and not enough indians (Glenwillow, population 449, has a mayor and a six-person village council, fer chrissakes!), and you get the quagmire we're in the midst of. Sometimes, you don't criticize the bear for how poorly it dances, you applaud the fact that it dances at all...

here's a neat idea for reusing some of the land along Euclid: http://www.verticalfarm.com/ high-rise, indoor, closed-system hydroponic farming... solve land use/sprawl and food production problems all in one swell foop :clap:

and there are folks who would say, and I'm tempted to agree with them, that running it straight through the cbd above ground is what helped to kill downtown (you can roll a bowling ball down Main Place after 5:00pm and not risk hitting anyone)... it's a businessman/schoolkid line, plain & simple, and as far as TOD revitalization is concerned, I can't speak for the last 18 months, but when I was there, the midtown stretch (Humboldt-Allen) rivaled the earlier WWII analogy in terms of burned-out/boarded up storefronts... yes, things are happening there now, with the medical corridor revitalization, and an aggressive downtown housing initiative, but that rail line had NOTHING to do with it KJP, I have a feeling that 19.2K/day number is a bit skewed (a transit agency, spin statistics in their favor? well I never!!! :-o)... and I'm genuinely surprised to hear our number is so low... not doubting it, but more from an interest standpoint, please cite your source

Having lived 18 years in Buffalo and suffered through what they called a public transportation system (while developing a good working relationship with their planning manager), and with apologies to Public Enemy, "LRT is a joke in that town"... Oh, and CTownsFinest216, I'm sure this has also been said before, but I'll say it again... RTA COULD NOT use the money for ECTP to expand existing rail lines, because the vast majority of it was not RTA's money, but purpose-earmarked federal grants. Wishing something doesn't make it so, there are rules that need to be followed with any handout, just like when you received an allowance as a kid...

and for anyone who isn't otherwise occupied on Thursday, the 21st at noon: http://www.riderta.com/jointheride/