Caseyc

From my office vantage point in Atrium II, you can see that the current construction going on in the northern section is different than the parking deck portions that have been stretched across the site on the Freedom Way path. There are walls going up, and different foundations and infrastructure than that which was laid for the basic parking deck sections. Obviously this is necessitated by what is going in above the northwest quadrant (office building). But it is interesting to see something slightly more exciting than a forest of concrete columns. Things are also active up on the section immediately east of the Roebling entrance, which I guess is Ted Berry Way. They are definitely doing a lot of excavation work up there, with a couple pieces of heavy equipment doing the digging. Also looks like sewer pipes going in. South of this spot will be where the park begins, although I am still unclear as to how the re-route of Mehring Way figures in. Plans look to have it looping northward and going under the bridge ramp.

some observations on the parties from a friend involved in Charlotte:

shotgun blast to follow: Start in Mt. Adams....take the Eden park way out via Ida (loop around the playhouse and Mt. Adams pool if you want, just for a quick view), out past the Art Museum, follow through Eden Park around Mirror Lake and back up the hill, past the Krohn conservatory, take a quick loop into the overlook on the right...pause and admire view...keep going out, right on Victory Pkwy...go short distance and pass Edgecliff (tall condos) and turn right on Cypress, go in and turn right on Upland Place....follow that out to McMillan. Some good houses in there. Turn right on McMillan, to where it turns left on Woodburn...follow woodburn down to madison (through the old Village fo Woodburn), right on Madison (stop for coffee if you need it here). Off of Madison, Keys Crescent and Baker Place will be on your right. Also Beechcrest...don't worry if it says private drive. On your left are interesting streets as well, Dexter, Wold, Annwood etc...follow Madison through to O'Bryonville, right on Grandin just after passing thru OBville...as mentioned above, try exploring some of the streets that snake off of Grandin toward the river...follow grandin around...to Edwards, left on Edwards...follow a bit to Handasyde avenue, left on that...up to Stettinius, right on that...follow down to Observatory...and maybe go right on Observatory and over to HP square for some lunch or another coffee....then head back on Observatory, over Madison to Dana and head into North Avondale.

Indian Hill is not really worth the drive. Too many McMansions and it's difficult to see a lot of the ones of interest. I do like edale's recommendation re Grandin. That's a nice drive, but I would add in some of the other streets in East Walnut Hills off of Madison, just outside of O'Bryonville, but in the other direction....Key's Crescent and the rest are great and easy access. Rose Hill in North Avondale is also a good drive.

Amateur boxing matches at the 1903-era Cincinnati Athletic Club Friday night.

I would tend to stay with the Banks. I don't necessarily think it has a lot of negative baggage among the ignorami, who typically refer to it as the "mudpit on the riverfront" or something to that effect. The otehr options seem both uninspirign and slightly awkward. Queen City Landing anyone?

agreed and agreed...and agree and agree....ad infinitum....and then we collapse on ourselves. Preaching to the choir can only go so far.

it's not worth the trouble. they don't do their homework, and if you try and do it for them, they will either ignore/refuse to acknowledge or twist it. I think that site is a lost cause for discussing the issue, unless you think convincing two people is going to make a difference. there are better forums to debate the issue in an intelligent manner. The Beacon is certainly not one of them.

I see the Art Center Music School around 13 or 14 photos down with plywood on the front. That's too bad. Harry Houdini was embalmed upstairs there after he died at Grace Hospital. Penn & Teller like to visit when in town.

A friend of mine tried to post on there last night and said he has never seen it show up. He was going to try again today. I told him to get signed up over here and not waste his time. From my experience (except for once), they usually show up on the Beacon eventually. Sometimes Mr. Moderator has better things to do then screen comments 24/7 (which begs the question, however, as to why comments need to be screened...isn't the Beacon where "Divergent Views Collide"?).

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=5416+Chrysler+Drive,+detroit+michigan&sll=39.154097,-84.485507&sspn=0.058837,0.153809&g=45229&ie=UTF8&ll=42.364743,-83.055439&spn=0.007008,0.019226&z=16&iwloc=addr&layer=c&cbll=42.364964,-83.055597&panoid=xqcbozlyNNVjiQqs5BiSig&cbp=12,74.21931204037086,,0,-5.217768215140205 Detroit has a couple of hundred extra trolley-trucks they aren't using following a failed experiment (you can see them lined up in this streetview link). I'm sure they are ready to deal. Unfortunately....not a lot of buyers. They've been sitting in this lot for over 6 years. But hell yeah. Let's follow the failed example of Detroit.

It is clear that he has not read the data/reports. He can, however, cite to a City Beat article. The "development subsidies" argument he harkens back to is clearly a talking point designed to obfuscate rather than to reach an answer, and it has been rebuffed multiple times. Moreover I don't think he has thought it through, based on his response to the rebuttals. I could do it for him but I don't think it's necessary to engage in any further remedial logic on these points. The "subsidies for development along the streetcar lines" argument is a red herring as well as a straw man, and is as relevant to this discussion as a debate on governmental subsidies for bio-fuels (i.e. irrelevant). Simply put, the streetcar is a huge catalyst when mixed with the incentives. I have not seen evidence of trolley trucks as catalysts for future development, although would be happy to review the Dean's data if he has it. As I indicated before, nobody thinks the streetcar exists solely in a vacuum. Clearly some developers/investors/small business owners may find incentives available, but they would never make the initial decision to access them but for the streetcar, hence the catalyst. As for as dollar amounts and cost-benefit ratios, if he has not read the studies, it's clear he doesn't plan to acknowldge them now. Don't hold (or waste) your breath. What has become clear in the debate over the past few days is that the Dean's motivation and personal agenda in opposing streetcars is a little different than that which has been publicly stated. I had a hunch when hearing the debate, but his statements and postings since then have confirmed it. Scratch the service of Smitherman's opposition and I suspect a similarly personal agenda will materialize.

62,136--That’s the number of residents, according to the 2000 Census, in Downtown, Over-the-Rhine and Uptown, the neighborhoods served by the streetcar line running from the Riverfront to the Zoo in Avondale. That is the about the same number of people who live in the neighborhoods of: California, Camp Washington, Carthage, Columbia-Tusculum, The East End, East Walnut Hills, English Woods, Fay Apartments, Hartwell, Kennedy Heights, Linwood, Lower Price Hill, Millvale, Mt. Adams, Mt. Lookout, North Fairmount, Queensgate, Riverside, Sayler Park, Sedamsville, South Cumminsville, South Fairmount, Spring Grove Village, and Winton Hills http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/62136/#comments

We do not delete substantive comments with which we disagree. In fact, the whole time this person has made these baseless allegations, we have been hosting lengthy comments which disagree with our positions, and we have engaged a healthy debate. I have sent an email to this person, asking for a copy of the allegedly deleted item. If s/he sends something of substance, I will happily showcase it on The Beacon. Base hypocrite. He just deleted a post, admits it and then misrepresents it (the deleted post) in trying to pre-empt accusations of censorship. Great tactic when losing a debate (and any shred of credibility in the process).

It does not seem to be the most pressing need....widening one lane each way between paddock and the western hills viaduct, and reconfiguring the on/off ramps seems like the least of our worries. Is it crowded during rush hour? Yes...but the bridge has a lot to do with that. Is it congested 24 hours a day like many other major urban freeways I have had the (dis)pleasure of traveling? Not at all. Moreover, studies have consistently shown that adding freeway lanes only leads to more congestion. More capacity = more cars/trucks. I saw this replicated repeatedly while living in Detroit, yet the powers that be have a real hard time with the concept. As a result, nobody blinks twice about spending 800 million to widen 8 miles of 75 and spruce up a few on/off ramps. But spend less than a 1/4th of that on 8 miles of streetcars through the heart of the city, connecting the CBD with the river, OTR, the largest university, the medical center and the zoo? Howls of protest as a result. Smitherman has represented that the anti-streetcar cabal wants money spent on adding lanes to 75 rather ($800 million) than streetcars ($185 million). Apparently his cohorts agree.

It is clearly not mass transit. It is a circulator, at last in its current incarnation. If expanded all the way through three phases to the zoo, it would cover 8 miles. That said, however, it is certainly the first step in what could be a mass transit system. Maybe if we took the 800 million dollars that the Dean's comrade Chris Smitherman wants to spend on widening I-75, add it to the current proposal, then we really would have some semblance of mass transit. If we're going to govern by ballot box, why doesn't the Dean put the I-75 widening project on the ballot as well? Incidentally, the whole subsidies argument is a weak red herring designed to muddle the issue. Do we really want to go down that road? If so, what are the subsidies for the beloved bio-fuels which will supposedly supply the fuel for these imaginary trolley trucks? Like I said, it's a red herring. To bypass it, assume the trolley-trucks and streetcars both have available the same economic subsidies. Which will spur more economic development? If the Dean has read the studies, then he knows the answer to this question. You are not making any sense. Why would you talk about subsidies to the bio-fuel industry? I have said nothing about King Coal and his massive government subsidies. I also have not said the streetcar itself (or the trolleys themselves) are subsidized. I'm talking about the development that happens near the route. Get it? not sure who isn't getting it. If you are concerned about development subsidies along streetcar routes, then maybe you should put that to a vote as well. Your debate seems to be getting pretty far afield. If you want to talk about the efficacy of government subsidies, then pretty bio-fuels are fair game. Like I said, you've gone off on a tangent that seems more designed to obfuscate than make a point. Why not get it back to streetcars? As I have repeatedly stated, let me keep it simple for you, assume the eco development subsidies for streetcars and trolley trucks are equal. What will generate greater economic development? The streetcars or your beloved trolley trucks (on bio-fuels of course)? If you have done your homework assignment for today (I suspect not) then you would know the answer. By the way, when are you going to repudiate your comrade Smitherman's demand to widen 8 miles of I-75 at the cost of 800 millions as opposed to the streetcar route (phases I through III)? Seems kind of at odds with your goals of economic, environmental and social sustainability? Yet neither you nor Justin has chosen to disavow or repudiate Smitherman, despite...oh, what....10 requests on my part today to do so? Stay tuned for Tuesday's Soapbox for request #11.

It is clearly not mass transit. It is a circulator, at last in its current incarnation. If expanded all the way through three phases to the zoo, it would cover 8 miles. That said, however, it is certainly the first step in what could be a mass transit system. Maybe if we took the 800 million dollars that the Dean's comrade Chris Smitherman wants to spend on widening I-75, add it to the current proposal, then we really would have some semblance of mass transit. If we're going to govern by ballot box, why doesn't the Dean put the I-75 widening project on the ballot as well? Incidentally, the whole subsidies argument is a weak red herring designed to muddle the issue. Do we really want to go down that road? If so, what are the subsidies for the beloved bio-fuels which will supposedly supply the fuel for these imaginary trolley trucks? Like I said, it's a red herring. To bypass it, assume the trolley-trucks and streetcars both have available the same economic subsidies. Which will spur more economic development? If the Dean has read the studies, then he knows the answer to this question.

No problem, it's also obvious that you're picking and choosing which points to address and which points to leave unanswered. that's nothing new. Check out his debate on the Beacon....

Very loud story from a group of 7 at Grammer's, about John Schneider getting pulled over for speeding in Portland, and mistakenly handing the policewoman his Delta Amex card, as opposed to license (officer response; sir, we don't give frequent flyer miles here"). Many yuks. The other two passengers are the ones telling the story. Nice irony tho....

Right! but you forgot "snarky"!!

these two posts are a joke right?? Please tell me it's a joke. The only thing proven is that adding lanes to a freeway adds more cars (and more congestion). Just ask Detroit, Atlanta and...well... Florida. You've got to be kidding me. Adding a lane to the freeway each way does nothing for economic development. You're not going to show me empirical evidence that demonstrates otherwise.

regarding the Cincinnati Dining Scene and recent JeanRobert/Wade imbroglio.... http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/0127soadishfoodies.aspx

although I recognize that there's an obvious apples and oranges flaw, it should be noted that the Mill Creek Expressway/I-75 project (not to be confused with the "Through the Valley/I75 project), which will essentially add an 8 mile lane of freeway in both directions of 75 between Western Hills Viaduct and Paddock and revamp on/off ramps, will cost an estimates $642.5 million. That's an extra lane of freeway for 8 miles, plus revamping interchanges. That's an important number just to keep things in perspective when discussing the cost of the streetcar projecta nd the anticipated benefits. In addition, the Through the Valley project, adding 4 more lanes from Paddock to I75, is another $149 million (at least). $800 million to basically add a few lanes to a relatively short stretch of 75. And people are bitching about 180 million for a transformative streetcar system? It's all about perspective.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090201/NEWS01/902010360/1168/NEWS0101 Leave it to Bronson to write a generally positive piece on the Brewery District with nary a mention of the streetcar and the impact of what the proposed line would have on the area.

does anyone have a rule of thumb/ballpark on how much it costs to widen a mile of interstate in an urban setting? I realize there are a lot of variables, but when I was in Detroit, in '03, it was estimated (conservatively) that it would cost around $1.3 billion to widen 6.7 miles of I-94 near the downtown. http://metrotimes.com/archives/story.asp?id=4455 Moreover, it is common knowledge that expanding freeway capacities by adding lanes does not lessen congestion--it only leads to more cars on the freeways. His letter is, to put it mildly, stupid.