Billy@MostMetro

Welcome John! Nice to see more Dayton folk on here - slowly taking over Urban Ohio :mrgreen:

Way to go Dayton!

19th works for me - I'll be here. And we are involved with Urban Nights and may be doing an after-party of sorts at the loft. If we do have something, Urban Ohio forumers are invited! So what are the details for the 19th?

Thanks Jeff - just doing what I can do to try to get people to see the city like I do - as a city with an amazing history, amazing architecture, tons of potential, many decent people that are making a difference and an undercurrent of activity that is keeping things moving in a positive direction. I've been to Toledo and I see the same problem with their downtown - a ton of potential but why isn't the whole region embracing it? The pride thing is difficult in cities like Dayton and Toledo as they tend to be seen as "second-rate" to their larger neighbords (Cincinatti & Columbus, Detroit). I just think it is ironic that when you go to those bigger cities, you hear people there complaining about how their city isn't as good as Chicago, San Francisco or New York. Like ColDayMan said in an earlier post - it's a rust belt thing. One thing about the urban core of Dayton is that there seems to be a growing number of younger people that are really getting involved and doing what they can to make this a place that people want to stay in rather than move away from. As I've written on DMM, <a href="http://www.generationdayton.org/">Generation Dayton</a> and <a href="http://www.daytoncircus.org/">The Circus</a> are two groups to watch. And stay tuned, because people that I know who are involved with investing in and re-developing our urban neighborhoods (including downtown) have some deep pockets, a lot of influence and most importantly - a passion for this city and the amazing architecture it has. And these same influential people are bringing in groups like Richard Florida's <a href="http://www.creativeclass.org/display.php?page=services">Creativity Group</a> and Carol Coletta's <a href="http://www.ceosforcities.org/home/index.php">CEO's for Cities</a> to assist in building sustainable plans for our city. Now, those things by themselves do not guarentee success, but it is those things that are happening in the undercurrent that most people are hearing nothing about. If we had more people believing, it would happen even quicker. And hopefully the notion of "Dayton Pride" will soon no longer be met with "derisive laughter". And if not, I guess I can always move back to Chicago! :weird:

Before today, Tanks and Breakfast Club were THE places to go for breakfast. We will miss Breakfast Club! And yes, Tanks IS a bar - but somehow they've managed to pull off a mighty fine breakfast. I especially like the fact that they use "Oakwood Possum" as opposed to lower grade options. (if you've seen their menu you know what I'm talking about).

As tired and archaic businesses such as MeadWestvaco and even DDN leave downtown, creative and progressive businesses such as Hafenbrack Marketing and BGH Studios continue to move into downtown. And let's face it - we'd rather have businesses that value the downtown urban environment, believe in downtown's future and actually want to be here than businesses and their employees who do nothing but complain about being downtown. As for parking, the city has immediate plans to build a new parking garage for CareSource and hopes to build two more garages. There are several parking garages downtown, though some are either not marketed correctly or need some serious updating. Ironically since I live downtown I actually have no idea how good or bad the parking really is. Keep your eye on Bob & Nancy Schifler - they are buying up these historic downtown buildings one by one and turning them into masterpieces (see Kuhns Building earlier in this thread). I would not be surprised if they eventually acquire the Arcade. It is folks like them that believe in downtown and are betting some serious money on it.

Great story - thanks glutmax! Last year we lived part time in German Village/Columbus and often talked about the idea of having kids there, but we rarely saw kids other than occasionally in Schiller Park. This article hits home with me as my wife and I have lived in a downtown loft (Dayton) for the past three years and we're expecting our first kid in August. We don't want to move and plan to stay here for at least another few years. We do have one kid in our building (19 months old) but I don't know how long they plan to stay. The fact that there aren't any other kids is the only reason we would think about leaving. Our kid(s) will go to Catholic school (though I'm proud to say that I went to public schools in an urban environment just outside of Chicago), and crime is certainly not an issue (contrary to popular belief). I do hope that with 60 or so condos and townhomes planned for our downtown neighborhood in addition to the 75 we already have means that at least a couple more kids will move in. And when we do move, it will be to a house in a historic district in the city. :clap:

^That is cool - wonder how long before it hits other cities....(especially the monster mass transit cities like ny and chi town)

^That is very interesting, Jeff - thanks for the info. I knew that Mead owned a bunch of office space down that way, but I assumed they sold a lot of it off after their merger with Westvaco and subsequent headquarter relocation to Richmond. It would be interesting to know if way back when, Mead had always planned to eventually move their entire operation to the south burbs.

I don't know that area very well other than that my brother lives in Westfield, and driving 31 to his house reveals miles of these office buildings, business parks and retail centers - with not a sidewalk in sight. Whenever I drive through I always wonder what would happen to this area if gas shot up to $6.00 per gallon. And because all of this development looks the same, there is no sense of place - so honestly I have no idea what town I'm in as I drive 31 to Westfield. I have no problem with new urbanism (sustainable, walkable and mixed-use), and if Carmel has that then I would say kudos to them. But it doesn't exist anywhere on my drive to Westfield. My problem with the Austin Road development is that the region has no need for yet another business park/retail center. The region is shrinking. Except for businesses supporting or spinning off from WPAB, there aren't many businesses relocating here from outside of the region. What this Austin Road development represents to me is simply another opportunity for downtown businesses to be poached - all in the name of more free parking and less "crime". For the amount of money being spent on this interchange and subsequent development, I'd bet five new parking garages could be built in downtown. But this region isn't interested in downtown as much as it is interested in continuing the homogenized growth southward. And this is exactly why so many young people are fleeing for bigger cities as soon as they get done with school - because they would rather be in diverse, vibrant and interesting urban centers, not the 1950's version of the "American Dream".

Ok, since people are posting pics of their pads, here is mine (top floor) 8-)

I live in a 100+ year old warehouse in Downtown Dayton

That is somewhat unfair. Not everyone who lives in the suburbs avoids Dayton. And if you read the Dayton Daily News message boards one will find people who live in the city are hardly city boosters, either. While I'm sure PrfctTimeOfDay didn't mean anything negative by the "darn suburbanites" comment, I do agree with Jeff that not all suburbanites avoid Dayton. Just like not all first-tier cities have suburbanites that ALL support the city (Chicago's suburbs have plenty of people that don't go into the city but a couple times a year - my mom included). The urban elitists that claim that all suburbanites are evil are not any better than the suburbanites that have nothing good to say about the city. I will say that most burb residents in the Dayton region that I've met and talked to have the attitude that PrfctTimeOfDay's coworkers have - many don't understand why anybody would want to actually live anywhere in the city proper (let alone downtown). We saw alot of that kind of attitude when we opened our loft for previous Urban Nights events. At least they were interested enough to actually take the tour. We did our best to convince people that it is quite safe downtown, but some people will never be convinced. We won't quit trying...

At least SOMEBODY is older than me (36)!

Why can't it be 31 - 36? Damn!

^ Thanks ColDayMan - and it certainly isn't just me, there are plenty of good people doing great things in this town. It is just too bad that the most of the rest of the region seems to remain pessimistic about Dayton's future. It would be interesting to figure out how many of us that do believe in the city enough to invest and live in it are actually from a different city. I can say that many of my neighbors are from either California or the East Cost. Ironically I've found that the people who are actually from Dayton are typically the ones who are most negative towards it. Anybody else notice that as well? I believe sprawl occurs for two main reasons (besides those profit-hungry developers) - either the urban center has become far too expensive for average folks so they are forced to move further and further away from the city, or because the urban center has become overrun with poverty so folks that can afford to move further and further away from the city. The good news about being the latter is that there is at least a chance (albeit small) that sprawl can be slowed significantly with more regional-minded policies (i.e. politicians with balls) and urban investment (i.e. investors with balls).

That is exactly my problem with the Dayton region. When we first moved to Ohio in 2001, we chose the Dayton region because my wife has family here. EVERYBODY - family, realtors, people we talked to - told us to move to the south suburbs and STAY AWAY from Dayton-proper. We didn't know any better so we listened. Two years later we decided that we just didn't like suburban living and moved to downtown. And guess what - it is actually pretty cool here and growing. (btw - I know almost ALL of my neighbors here; in the burbs I only knew people by waving to them across the driveway) I'd never tell people where they should and shouldn't live, and I have no problem with people that live in the burbs. But why can't those same people recognize that some people actually prefer urban living, and try to understand that instead of looking down at the idea and trying to convince people that their way of life is better? Our young people are fleeing in masses as soon as they get done with school so they can live in "cool cities". Well, Dayton (like all of the other urban cities in Ohio) could be one of those cool cities (and much more affordable) that actually attract people if only people in this region would quit acting like the city is only where poor people live!

^ Just that a couple of their most recent posts discuss Cin-Day merger....

Sorry if this is straying off topic (since this is probably covered elsewhere), but check out <a href="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070310/VIDEO/303100017">this video</a> of the Austin Road Interchange. It is sad how the woman who is describing the project is talking about how businesses wanting to relocate there is such a good thing. "We just love out-of-control-sprawl down here in the south suburbs! The more land we can blacktop the better!".... pathetic! If anybody is familiar with the north side of Indy (31 off of 465), that is what this Austin Road area will ultimately look like. Nothing but business park after business park after generic strip mall after business park - with absolutely no regard to any kind of walkability or sustainability. And all at the expense of our urban core. Anybody ready to start a revolution? Also, it looks like my friends at <a href="http://www.grassrootsdayton.org/">Grassroots Greater Dayton</a> have been looking at this thread...

The DDN is owned by Cox Publishing (based in Atlanta). I don't know who owns the Post or Enquirer, but unless those are owned by Cox also, then a media merger like you're suggesting is as unlikely as a Cin-Day merger.

^Central center - you may start commencing with the redundancy comments :drunk:

Imagine a high-speed rail system between Cinci-Dayton-Columbus - the actual distance is roughly the same as between the furthest reaches of Chicago's suburbs. I'm sure that has been covered on this forum in the past, but it makes total sense since there are so many people that live in/near one of those three cities but work in another. It is too bad our state (and these three cities) can't think THAT regionally... But going back to the Cinci-Dayton merge question, I agree with the rest of you - without inter-city rail, it would just mean more gridlock. The question of what city people from the middle typically identify themselves with is interesting, and the answers were what I expected. The sad thing is, even people from the obvious suburbs of Dayton (Springboro and Centerville) have a hard time claiming Dayton as their home city. A sign of how emotionally disconnected Dayton's suburbs are from the city. The article mentions Dallas-Fort Worth as an example for Cinci-Dayton, but from what I've heard about that region, it has some of the worst sprawl in the country. Do you think that having two seperate city centers at opposite sides of a metro region causes more or less sprawl than having one big central center? I would think that it just leads to more sprawl/development in the middle (which is where it is headed anyway), and ultimately dilutes the entire region's identity.

Isn't that like asking a tobacco company if smoking is dangerous?

Thanks for that informative post Jeff - I agree with what you said about the idea behind Tech Town is to somewhat mimic the knowledge transfer between institution and commercial (in Cambridge and Pittsburgh it is university-driven, in Dayton it is USAF-driven). In Florida's lecture he discussed how Carnegie Mellon had spawned what would become at-the-time-tech-giant Lycos, only to see them relocate to Boston. This happened because it was getting to be too much work to get the talent they needed to relocate to Pittsburgh, and the Boston area already had an extremely high talent pool from which to hire from. I can see the same thing happening in Dayton, which is ironically similar to this area's current brain drain. Whether it is a new hi-tech business or a very bright student, it seems that we do a great job of grooming them here only to watch them grow up and eventually move to another city because Dayton doesn't have what they need. At least Dayton is hardly the only Ohio city with this problem - I know the "brain-drain" problem exists even in Columbus. But alas, I'm sure this has been covered in another post on this forum... Btw - An interview with Richard Florida talking about his theories and Dayton can be heard on WYSO's NPR station : http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wyso/arts.artsmain?action=viewArticle&sid=17&id=1046851&pid=25

I imagine most people on this forum have heard of the book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Creative-Class-Transforming-Community/dp/0465024777/sr=1-1/qid=1166396556/ref=sr_1_1/103-7947482-6597416?ie=UTF8&s=books">"Rise of the Creative Class"</a> by Richard Florida. Well, he was in Dayton on Thursday night as a featured speaker at WSU. His lecture was quite interesting even for somebody that had read his books and subscribes to his theories - especially since he spoke to the issues in Dayton specifically. His blog mentions <a href="http://creativeclass.typepad.com/thecreativityexchange/2007/03/dayton_gets_cre.html">his visit to Dayton</a>, and it is nice to see that the audience left an impression on him... As I'm sure Richard Florida has spoken at every major Ohio city at one time or another, have any of you seen his lecture or read his books? How do you feel about his theories? Has your city done anything as far as policy change or development that you think can be attributed to your city's leaders having listened to Richard Florida's ideas on what makes a successful city? I've heard that the last time Florida was in Dayton, the city's leaders immediately using the phrase "Creative Class" as if it was THE new direction to take the city, and hence Tool Town became Tech Town (though I don't know since I wasn't here at the time)... If this is the case, I think they only heard part of Florida's message; hopefully this time around they heard the whole message...