mrCharlie

Just wanted to add this has been a great discussion. As someone who live in Granville for about 10 years but grew up in the Cincinnati area, its great getting some backstory and perspective on the area beyond our own experience. I'm mostly okay with the greenspace program and see it as another tool for shaping development in the area. I like when its used for buying land outright with the intent of eventually using them for public purposes (parks or preserves). I'm sort of mixed when it gets used for buying up development rights to private land, though I suppose it does stretch the funds further. I do believe there has been some discussions about if open space funds can be used for the proposed development, but I think it unclear if they can use it for land outside Granville Township. Either way, a lot of the purpose and need behind the greenspace program feels like yet another workaround for the limited options available at the township level to have some control over growth. I could be remembering it wrong, but I think Moe's in Newark opened in 2017 - they had a few years of both locations, which didn't ever really seem sustainable. Moe's in Granville was very popular when it opened, often with a line well out the door. We liked it (despite often getting my order wrong...), but we could get more food for half the price at City BBQ. Between the second location nearby, Barrel and Boar opening as a more destination option, and Dickies on 21st it seemed like the upstairs bar was sustaining them in Granville for a while. We're really hoping for something good/interesting/different to land in that space, it's only a three block walk for us. The new BBQ place is probably even closer, but with the lack of real sidewalk on the viaduct it's not very walkable. As for the other places off the top of my head that closed recently, Eat Up was in the invisible space above Whit's and changed hands (and menu) right before lockdown. We loved the previous menu, but it fell into the problem area of being the too "real" so it was slow for a lunch takeout place. Goumas retired (apparently long planned), and the popcorn place (which was pretty good) in the back of it was hidden and probably pretty reliant on touristy foot traffic. We're very excited to see how well Mai Chau and Three Tigers are doing, and they should be a great fit in the old firehouse. They seem like they'll really make use of the space. Better still, it opens up another spot (or two!) for something new.

I meant to comment on this, but I think this is absolutely correct - the limited diversity in Granville is entirely chicken and egg. For the population size and semi-rural location it's pretty inevitable, at least in Ohio. I have unfortunately over the years seen a few Facebook posts in local groups (typically from non-minority people who moved here from a bigger city in a different part of the country) who try to say that the lack of diversity around here is because everyone is racist. It's infuriating. I think the vast majority of people around here would welcome absolutely anyone who wants to live here, and realistically there probably isn't anything that can or should be done differently that would make a big difference in this regard.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, and I certainly hope I'm not coming off as trashing Granville - we love it here! I'm not familiar enough with the regional planning around here to really comment on that one way or the other. My feeling is more that if Granville wants to keep being Granville, the smart move is to take action now and make sure we can ultimately keep decisions local. It's very unfortunate that surrounding municipalities would take advantage of the demand for our school system, but its probably important to acknowledge that has already happened with Newark and there isn't much to keep it from happening again. I've been happy to see over the 10 years or so we've lived here that *most* of the business that were the worst about this are gone, which give opportunity for something better to open in one of the limited commercial locations. When we moved here there was restaurant called Brews, as well as an Italian place a few doors down which really weren't great and got worse over time. People still went, there weren't too many other options, people here like to support local and could walk to them. They did eventually go under, though there is still a coffee shop right in town with a great location and decisively meh coffee. The newer wave of places to eat (Alfie's, Steamroller, Three Tigers, Day y Noche, Sugar Sweet Bakery) are all great and would be competitive most anywhere in Columbus.

I am definitely not super well versed on Pataskala (and could be conflating the two), but I got that impression (which absolutely could be wrong) from various newspaper articles over the years that Pataskala city government was bad about green lighting any proposals that had the potential to bring more income tax revenue into the city. And many of these required a lot of resident opposition to keep in check. I also had a talk with our realtor about Licking Heights and the reasons behind their overcrowding issues after my wife and I looked at what was basically our dream house in that district. The school concerns shut that down pretty quick, it's says...something when they have a directory of American private schools book sitting out on a coffee table. Mainly I was referring to Granville (both village and township) governments being (what seemed to me) unusually considerate of the impact on schools in all development, even though in Ohio government structure it's a different entity's problem to make up the difference. Seeing how it plays out in some places reminds me a bit of when Kasich cut the Local Government Fund - he got to look like a good guy by not raising state taxes, but lots of people ultimate ended up paying more (or local entities made some deeper cuts). But I digress... As for the proposed development, its in the City of Newark - as far as I'm concerned this proposal or something similar is going to happen. There is a thin strip of Granville Village that blocks Newark City from going any further in that direction, though there is still empty land in the Granville Schools/Newark City overlap. I'm more making the point that there isn't anything stopping any surrounding municipalities from doing similar annexation of areas currently served by Granville schools unless as much of the district as possible were annexed as part of Granville. There is little stopping Pataskala, Heath, or Newark from annexing Granville Schools area along a different border and doing the same thing again. My main point is that people in Granville should probably look at this as a preview of what's likely to come over the next 20 years one way or another as Columbus marches eastward, and decide if we want to be the ones to control what things become. There is time if it happens soon, but if everyone continues to cross their fingers nothing will change its going to be way too late.

For the most part, preserving farmland as farmland has been the main goal of the current open space program. By my count, the township has either development rights or outright owns ~1800 acres. The township lot restrictions are mainly to ensure any new houses will be priced as such to be self-sustaining for school impact, it seems to be one of the few ways they can accomplish that.

I absolutely agree the City of Newark should be fully in favor of this development, there is virtually no downside beyond some angry constituents in Park Trails. Adding a bunch of $400k houses and $1500/mo apartments (and more importantly, the residents who can afford them) will be great for the city tax base. The school issue isn’t a City of Newark problem - GEVSD residents can either pay for a new building or accept the schools might not be as good as the are now. I don’t hold this against Newark, it’s smart on their part. It’s been my observation that Granville just doesn't have the “all development is good development” mentality common around Ohio. Both direct and indirect impact on existing residents and businesses is strongly considered, so the typical suburban stuff like sprawl subdivisions, fast food, and strip malls barely exists. Granville has mostly benefited from this, the core village (commercial and residential) is quite healthy as a result. One downside is the “Granville tax” some businesses like to charge, at least some of them exploit the minimal competition and preference of residents to shop local with high prices, meh quality, and unambitious selection. This is more common in the places that have been around longer (who haven’t entirely accepted how easy it is to just go to Columbus now), many of the newer places would be competitive anywhere. This is one area I can see growth such making things better for current residents. More people to support things like a wider variety of restaurants and local stores, more competition to support the existing ones to actually try (and more customers if they do). More residents also might mean more diversity (economic, cultural, racial) which is another sore topic for Granville as it is now. (All of this is actually a big part of what is pushing my wife and I to consider moving closer to Columbus before our son starts school. While we love Granville but it's just feels a little too...small(?), homogenous(?), isolated(?) for us. I posted about that elsewhere - https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/17128-columbus-area-relocation-planning-ahead/) I share concerns about the new development costing existing Granville residents money, but there is a not small percentage of people who just want to keep things just how they are (including the size of the schools and feel of the area). I don’t really agree with that, it’s not very realistic and as of right now mostly out of our control anyway. In my mind, no matter what everyone wants the area to look like, the only way to make sure development is sustainable is to incorporate as much of district as possible while it’s still an option. The township is pretty powerless to stop annexation. Not just Newark, inevitably Pataskala (who it seems truly doesn’t care about school impact) will continue to sprawl its way up 16 and approve any development proposal that comes along. The township people need to just suck it up and pay village income tax and deal with some potential village regulations.

The funny thing is, Park Trails (and the other Granville School/Newark City developments) pay the same amount of Granville school taxes as anyone else in the district. Granville taxes are really only high as a percentage because of the school taxes (65-70% of our property tax bill here in the village), and high as an absolute because the property values tend to be higher. Granville schools also have a 0.75% income tax for all district residents. On top of that, the Park Trails people pay Newark City income tax, which is higher than Granville Village income tax (Granville Township doesn't have income tax). The quality of municipal services are also lower than the village, going by Facebook discussion. So the whole "Granville Schools, Newark Taxes" marketing used over there is hilarious because it's actually advertising a negative. The main homebuyer benefit these developments offer is a type of house and development that Granville Village/Township would never allow, mainly because they actively consider the impact on school with any development proposals. The township has a 5 acre lot size minimum, the village is quite strict with its zoning requirements. Most houses in Granville are either older/small or large/expensive compared to the very family-friendly $350k/2500sq ft houses being built. Granville does have a pretty aggressive green space program (and levy) to buy up development rights for large parcels to prevent them from becoming large housing developments, along with the more conventional strategies of refusing to extend water and sewer services. Apparently there were also efforts back in the 90's to incorporate the township (possibly the full boundaries of the school district?), but people in the township didn't want to pay the extra income tax so it didn't go anywhere. Seems to me like they are going to end up paying more now either way.

(I'll add that I'm sorry if any of that came off at all harsh, its been quite the heated topic of discussion around these parts. It's also hardy a unique issue around Ohio, yet another example of our terrible school funding methodology.)

Huge win for city of Newark, a great income tax addition without a huge demand for additional services. However, residents of Granville are not so happy about this plan and the impact it's likely to have on thew school district (noting that I do live in Granville, but am hoping to move to Columbus in the next few years). Lots of discussion on the local parents Facebook pages figuring out how to stop it from happening. Personally, I think it's pretty inevitable this or a similar plan will happen at some point with these parcels, Newark has most of the power here and there is little downside from their perspective. The main concern most people have is that the scale of the development will necessitate a new middle school, which is estimated to require a 3.5-4 mil levy paid by all district residents. Our school taxes are already some of the highest in the state, so adding another $1500/yr for a $300-400k home from the next 37 years is not something anyone is happy about. Granville as a whole is very supportive of the schools, but the last few levees have been really, really close. There is some irony that a lot of the opposition is coming from people in Park Trails, though to be fair they will also have to deal with the traffic impact in addition to paying for the new building. It's also my understanding most of the Park Trails houses had a 20-year special assessment to pay for the new building. I would personally be much less bothered by the new development if this was done again (or some other similar methodology), just hat shifted a higher degree of the new school over to either the new residents or (better yet) the developer.

This is great advice. It also has me realizing the important thing for us is the schools are actually good in practice, not just rated highly on paper. From the data I have seen, schools with a wide range of incomes or fairly high number of recent immigrants tend to get dinged in the ratings, but I feel like a school that knows what they are doing could make that diversity a benefit. One unfortunate thing about the ratings is they seem to be important for resale because they are important for resale... In this case that works in our favor since we plan on staying wherever we end up long-term, and there is effectively a line of people waiting to buy a house in our current district.

This sounds a lot like Granville, double the price of the same house down the road in Newark. What makes it a bit worse here is most of the village houses are pre-1920 or so, and since the area was fairly rural they are fairly simplistic and similar in a lot of ways (and probably all built by the same couple of people). We've seen plenty of old houses in Newark that were clearly built to a higher level of sophistication than what we find here. The lack of opportunity for "something different" house wise unless we go older or move away from town is actually another factor driving our thoughts to relocate. Also, great info on the Win-Win agreement, I had no idea that was a thing (it certainly wasn't in the Cincinnati area, at least when I was in school).

@GCrites80s This is just the kind of insight I'm looking for! Particularly since the state school report cards aren't available right now, the only quantifiable thing I have to go on is greatschools.org that a lot of the real estate sites use. Beechwold/Clintonville do attend Whetstone, which is rated a 2/10 on great schools. I call Worthington decent since the schools are a 7/10, versus UA and Granville are 9/10. I would be more than happy with Worthington, I went to school at a tiny, very unfunded district in Clermont County which (accurately) is rated 3/10. Definitely not fully against the right older house, we got a bargain on a definite fixer-upper and spend five years doing so. Post-kid though its proven tough finding time to do things right.

Long time lurker (I have a UO sticker from 2004 around here somewhere), occasionally poster… I need to get back into participating here again, this place is great! This feels like a good venue to have this discussion, since I think I’m likely to get the kind of insight I’m looking for. My wife and I currently live in Granville with our 3-year-old son. Granville is hard to beat for a small Ohio town, we live right in the heart of the village so it’s quite walkable - downtown and groceries are a few short blocks away. People are nice, the politics (in the village proper) agreeably blue without much hippie nonsense, and the schools very highly rated. Unfortunately, our house isn’t really optimal anymore. Rather than moving elsewhere in Granville, we keep coming back to wanting something a little different, and a little closer to civilization. Before COVID, we found ourselves spending much of our free time around Columbus - COSI, the zoo, shopping, and (most importantly) interesting food (Indian food, Japan Marketplace, North Market). 161 makes the trip pretty reasonable, but it’s still far enough to be weekends-only. An added benefit, Columbus excursions provide an opportunity for our son to be around people of other cultures, lack of diversity around here is a sore subject (not a knock on the people who live here, mostly just the reality of this being a small, somewhat isolated Ohio town). I’m permanent work-from-home and just need good internet (preferably fiber). My wife works at the Newark branch of a “large educational institution”. Even post-COVID, she likely won’t need to be on-site more than a few days a week unless she wants to be, and she can somewhat set her own schedule to avoid rush hour commutes. Her long term career trajectory suggests there is a good chance she'll end up working at the Columbus branch of said institution anyway. We’re in no hurry to do anything, but it seems like a good time to start thinking about our options and zero in on some places to look deeper into. We’d normally just start going to open houses, but prefer to wait until the world gets back to normal. Ideally, it would be nice to settle-in somewhere before our son starts school in two years or so (and certainly before first grade). We’re essentially Cincinnati-area natives (with family still there, being 1/2 hour closer is another benefit of a move) so we only have a passing familiarly of Columbus neighborhoods - and no real insight on what it would be like to live in them, or how they are perceived. What we are looking for in a house/neighborhood: • Housing stock with some personality, around 2000-2500 sq ft, budget probably $400-450K. Ready for a change of pace from our current 1906 house - probably something built between 1940 and 1990 so we get a little less maintenance, a more modern basement, but mature trees and an established neighborhood feel. • Neighborhood without the expectation to keep the lawn absolutely pristine (either legally required or dirty looks from the neighbors), but restrictive enough that someone can’t tear down the house next door and replace it with a giant McMansion. • At minimum, places to walk within the neighborhood. Access to bike trails is a big plus. Walkable to businesses (within a mile or so) of any kind is a huge plus. • Reasonably safe • Reasonably kid-friendly • Decent schools with at least some diversity (and some economic diversity) to give a better rounded experience • Relatively blue areas are a plus, or at least reasonably purple. Part of what kicked off looking now is being able to drive around and see what kind of signs people have in their yards. Vague impressions so far: • I’m really liking Worthington. Wide variety of housing stock to chose from that isn’t overly expensive, look to be decent schools. The area surrounding Old Worthington looks very walkable to a nice variety of businesses. Convenient enough to everything we like to do (though not especially close to any one thing), and somewhat reasonable if my wife needs to commute now or in the future. Would really love to live in Rush Creek Village but that looks to be pushing our budget quite a bit, and listings there seem fairly rare. • My wife is liking Upper Arlington, helped along by the great schools and encouragement from a colleague that lives there. I like it as well (especially south of Lane) but it looks rather expensive. Doesn’t seem a whole lot more diverse than where we are now. Walkability looks pretty mixed depending on location. Might be a bit too suburban, and perhaps a bit too red for our tastes. • Bexley looks nice as well and urban/walkable, but expensive like UA. • Grandview Heights looks to warrant more exploration, I’m not sure we’ve ever even been there. • Beechwold / Clintonville were on our initial list to look into, but schools are a big issue (especially high school). Reading about Clintonville development here made me realize its kind of an overrated area, walkability isn’t great like one would expect with being that close to the city. Houses look to be fairly expensive and small, with most of the same old house stuff we deal with now. Any places I missed we should be considering? Any thoughts on the places already listed? Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestions! Budget TBD at this point, unfortunately. Depends a bit on what I can find for work. Agree it probably makes a lot of sense to look for something short term right now, I know from past experience you learn a lot about an area once you spend some time there, and I think we are kind of hoping to finally buy a place and settle down in the next few years. So going on the cheap end probably makes sense too, to help facilitate that plan. So maybe a better question to ask, any particular areas out that direction that we need to avoid?

Hey everyone! Long-time reader finally finding my way back to Ohio this summer, hoping the new governor doesn't destroy it before we get there... My wife just got a professor job in Newark, bringing us back to Ohio after two years of post-doc in Rhode Island. We're both from greater Cincinnati, and lived in Athens for five years while she got her degree. Having lived in Athens, we came to know Columbus and the US 33 corridor fairly well, but never found our way to Newark or any of Licking County. She'll be working in Newark, but where I will work is to be determined. I'm a graphic designer, I assume that there will be a lot more opportunities in Columbus than in Newark, so we are thinking somewhere in the middle will probably be best. Probably looking to rent for the first year until we get a little more established, but thats a bit up in the air too. What I'm looking for are some suggestions on good places to live in that general area. Trying to avoid the sprawl areas, more interested in the country/small towns/historical areas. Just going by the map, Alexandria and Johnstown look interesting. But I also know that some of the small towns in Ohio can be pretty run-down and not too friendly to outsiders (Glouster, Chauncey in Athens County). I'm okay with a long-ish commute if the area is right. Wouldn't be opposed to even living in Newark proper to keep my wife's (known) commute down, but know nothing about the area. We got our current apartment when we only knew where my wife was working, so I commute daily from Pawtucket RI to Worcester MA, about 40 miles. Second thing- any good resources for finding rentals in that area? Craigslist doesn't seem to have the critical mass around there to be all that effective, and the Newark paper doesn't have great classifieds. One nice thing I have seen so far- rent prices are about half of what they are in Rhode Island. Thanks!

<i>So I suggest that the rest of us 99% chip in to buy a small corner of the country for these people to live.</i> I think I'd prefer to build a large spaceship. Then we convince the 1% that the world is doomed (they'd believe that, most of them already seem to think so), and that we want them to be the first to our new planet in order to colonize it with upright, moral people (since they are the backbone of society). Then we tell them the rest of us will be along shortly... (Apologies to Douglas Adams, though he'd likely approve)

Monte- I was probably a little harsh against Montgomery Cyclery, but I had more than a couple of bad experiences with them back in the day (mostly service/warranty issues). Of course, it's been probably ten years since I've dealt with them, so it wouldn't surprise me if things have changed (I think it's different owners now.) There was always a difference between the different stores as well. As I said above, they definitely beat a toy or department store, but based on my experiences I just can't recommend them. I guess the best advice to try a few different places and see what works for you.

I'm glad your experiences have been good- I realize it's going to be different every time for everyone. I've had good experiences with them as well as bad. It all depends on who you talk to I guess, the same is true for everywhere. Either way, it's sounds like we definitely are in agreement that a bike shop is the best place to buy a bike.

DO NOT go to Montgomery Cyclery! It's the equivalent of going to Best Buy- most of the time you are buying from a disinterested teenager (not always, just most of the time). Most people in Cincy go there mostly because they know the name, since those guys advertise like crazy. I've personally had some bad experiences with them as well, back in the day when I rode all the time. Of course, I'd still go there over Wal-Mart. Go to an independent local shop, who are staffed by people who love cycling and often give you a better deal anyway. The owner of <a href="http://www.reserbicycle.com/">Reser Bicycle Outfitters</a> just across the river in Newport is a very good friend of mine, as are a bunch of the guys working there, so I of course recommend them. Like any good shop, let him know what you have in mind and they will make sure you get matched up with the right bike. There are a few problems with buying used, or buying online, or buying from a department store. The big one is fit- if you don't buy a bike sized correctly to you (it's a lot more than seat high, standover, and wheel size) then it won't be comfortable, won't feel right, and won't be ridden. The other one is assembly and maintenance- a real bike shop only sells bike assembled, and doesn't for it to be so. Most people lack the tools and experience that it takes to correctly assemble a bicycle. A lot of shops, Reser's included, will also give you free tuning for as long as you own the bike, which will save you $30 whenever cable stretch and things go out of adjustment. Reser's also will give you 10% off helmets and whatever else when you buy your bike. Just so it doesn't seem like I'm just pushing my friend's shop, I'd also wholly recommend Bishop's in Milford, Jim's in Deer Park, or West Chester Cyclery. Campus in Clifton is okay, or at least it used to be. I used to go all over the place before me friend opened up his shop, so I've been to most of them at one point or another- but not really for the last couple of years.

BS in Graphic Design from the University of Cincinnati DAAP in 2002. Currently stuck in Athens while fiancée gets her PhD at OU.

I for one am in favor of the bypass. A good number of people are like myself and stuck in Athens because of spouse, etc attends/works for OU. Employment options for most fields are pretty limited in this area and pay poorly, so a good number of people make the 75-miles each-way drive to Columbus every day. I, for one, would probably make twice as much if I made that drive, way more than enough to pay the additional costs involved (which I'm rather hoping will happen). Nelsonville and Lancaster are basically the two things that make that drive suck, and the Lancaster bypass isn't too far from opening. Bypassing Nelosnville at highway speeds would probably save at least 10 minutes, possibly even more. Even for those who don't commute, a lot of people from this drive to Lancaster or Columbus just for shopping or other services.

<a href="http://wcpo.com/news/2005/local/04/27/bike_trail.html">According to wcpo.com</a>, it looks like Terrace Park has finally dropped its opposition to the bike trail passing through. Of course, the opposition was based on fear of the criminal element that having a bike trail brings to a community, with all of those hooligan road bikers and ruffian joggers and rollerbladers. I always thought it would be great to put the freight railroad back in the right-of-way, just to spite them. Anyway, just be careful to watch your speed as you ride through Terrace Park... Little Miami Bike Trail Gets Green Light Reported by: Tom McKee Web produced by: Neil Relyea Photographed by: 9News 4/27/2005 9:45:42 PM Construction on the Little Miami Bike Trail through Terrace Park finally got the green light this week. Work begins in November after years of village residents fighting the project. ...

unusualfire- thanks for the info Ikea is of course kind of cheap and crappy. But it is a great option for those of us on budgets to get stuff that's passably decent looking- a $10 table there looks a whole lot better than one from Wally World or Big Lots. Then again, my girlfriend and I bought our couch and loveseat and Snooty Fox in Mariemont- so we got Indian Hills castoffs for cheap, which are undoubtedly better in quality.

An Ikea in Cincy would make me very, very happy... I could stop driving to Pittsburgh every time we needed furniture. Please do post if you find the article.

There are going to be major repercussions- like talented younger people staying in Cincinnati and making it a better place to live. Not to mention the increased convention business. Phil Burr-ass is working hard to make Cincinnati (and the rest of Ohio) a crappier place to live.