mrCharlie

They offered the most vs Carmax and Vroom (all of which were crazy high in my option) when I was getting rid of my 4-year-old, 35k mile Focus ST back in June. Ultimately I traded it in for even more, since I found an okay deal on the car we wanted (and the effective value was even greater with the sale tax advantage). The in-laws went with Carvana to sell their 5-year-old Miata for not much less than they paid for it last month. My assumption is they make their money on financing, along with add-ons like warranties and TruCoat. Not unlike traditional dealerships, which a significant percentage of people do indeed despise dealing with.

Can confirm. KBB for my Focus ST was ~$5k higher than when I looked a year or two ago, or about 3/4 what I paid for it four years ago. We traded it in on a hybrid last month. Not too much of a discount on the new car (no reason to be, there were 20 cars on the lot instead of 400), but with crazy value on the trade I was quite happy with the full transaction. Last week, the in-laws sold their 2016 Miata outright to one of the online car sites for even closer to what they paid. Granted, both of our cars were low-mileage and super clean/accident free, but it doesn't seem all that unusual right now. It's definitely worth checking prices for anyone who can get by with one fewer car until the new car supply catches back up to demand.

Good to hear. That flight was the first leg of our trip to Tokyo-Haneida a few years back, flying with them overall was a great experience. We'd definitely fly with them again going international, price was good too. Quite the study in full range of modern commercial aviation though. CMH-YYZ was on some tiny CRJ that had seen better days. We had to walk outside and climb the stairs to get on. I had to duck down getting in and was rather uncomfortable the whole time, but it was only for an hour. YYZ-HND was probably the nicest 777 in their fleet, super comfortable (especially when we upgraded to Premium Economy on the way home), but wow was that ever a long flight (13+ hours?). Probably a reason most people don't fly east from here on the way to Japan.

I think I can count myself as at least a partial Smart Columbus success story, for a part of the program I haven't seen mentioned too often. Back in Sept 2019, I went to a test drive event held by Smart Columbus for the purpose of encouraging EV/PHEV adoption. They had some nice discussion about the environmental and economic benefits of going electric, what it was like to live with an electric car, etc. Probably a dozen cars to drive, I ended up driving a Tesla Model S and Toyota Prius Prime (PHEV). I consider myself a car enthusiast, though I also like my cars to have some balance of practicality and efficiency along with power and handling. I do appreciate good engineering, and had been curious about the state of EVs and PHEVs - but since our cars were pretty new I wasn't about to go out looking anytime soon. The Tesla was impressive, though the price/range doesn't quite work for our needs (but getting close). The real surprise was how much I liked the Prius, especially compared to friends' Prii (if only it had a bit more cargo space). Despite my 25-year love of cars with three pedals, I left the event absolutely sure our next car would be a hybrid at minimum, and anything else would feel like a relic. A few weeks ago, encouraged by ridiculous trade-in values and realizing it was getting annoying to use it for toddler duty, I traded in my Ford Focus ST on a new (hybrid-only) Toyota Venza. Though not PHEV, we wanted a crossover, and several of our other top contenders lost out because of the lack of hybrid option (or the hybrid version being super expensive, or impossible to get like the RAV4 Prime). Had it not been for the Smart Columbus event, it's hard to imagine getting a hybrid would have been such a high priority for us. Edit: Here is a link about the EV component of the program and what they accomplished - https://smartcitiesconnect.org/columbus-exceeds-smart-city-challenge-grants-electric-vehicle-adoption-goal/

Also speaking from the Columbus point of view and huge fan of trains since childhood, I'm extremely excited this could finally be happening. The route itself is absolutely needed, I despised whenever I had to make the Cincy-to-Cleveland drive for work a few years back. I 100% agree that at minimum, 3C+D is an important starting point for building service in the region, and there will no doubt be plenty of people using from Columbus who wouldn't otherwise want (or be able) to make the drive. That said, I'm not too sure how often we'll personally use it. It would be super cool (and I think our son would absolutely love) taking the train to spend the day at Union Terminal. That whole trip would suddenly be something special, and I really can't wait to be able to do so. The rest of our Cincinnati-area trips will probably remain driving trips, since most of our family is in Clermont County. I do think for Columbus, the 3C+D route would have a lot of added value as long as there are some reasonably well timed trains to make transferring to east coast trains practical. Chicago is probably a little tricker, since transferring on either end is probably going to add a lot of time over the current travel options. I don't doubt the accuracy of the numbers KJP posted - but having made the Columbus to Chicago trip a bunch of times over the last decade or so, I wonder if the low numbers are somewhat of a chicken-and-egg problem. It's a short enough flight that the overhead and hassle of flying feels silly. In addition to just having a car in Chicago being a pain, there also isn't an especially great driving route (via Indy, Ft Wayne, Toledo are all annoying for various reasons). I'm very hopeful 3C+D both happens to begin with, and is successful enough to help move forward the proposals to connect Columbus and Chicago directly.

The 161/37/16 stuff is really confusing to explain when giving directions to my house in Granville whenever Cincinnati family visits. Half the time people end up taking 70 to 37 which is a much worse drive. The 37/16 exits are almost as confusing.

The article does say (and I think I've heard elsewhere too) the old bridge is staying. It's a good thing too, it's quite a bridge with an interesting history - Showman Arch was built in 1833 to carry the Granville Feeder Canal, then later the interurban. What they will do with it though is a different issue... there is already a rather nice iron bridge just downstream for the bike trail to cross the creek, basically accomplishing the same thing. Might be interesting to see it restored in some way with the ugly concrete cladding removed (it's apparently stone underneath) and a more appropriate guardrail.

I might have been incorrect about Granville paying for any of it since the article is rather confusingly worded. Either way, the county auditor maps seem to indicate that some of the land where the new road and possible the bridge itself (between Cherry Valley Rd and some of the creek) is Village of Granville. Legally, I doubt Newark could do this without getting Granville's okay no matter the circumstances. I do agree its a little odd there wasn't an agreement in place already as part of the Thornwood Crossing interchange. As for who should pay, there really isn't much in the way of direct benefit to Granville with this project so I don't think there would have been a whole lot of success persuading the village to kick in much. The project mainly benefits Newark (and Heath!) by improving highway access.

This looks like a great project and I'm glad its moving forward. Hopefully some improvements will also be made to Thornwood as it goes over the hill between River and James, and especially some improvements at the intersection with James. I've come across a few old (before my time here) references to proposals to build either a divided highway or four lane road in place of Thornwood, this seems like a lot better solution for the current need (though I also assume those proposals were pre-161 with the intent of improving access to I-70). REALLY glad Showman's Arch isn't going anywhere, really hoping something interesting can be done with it. In this case part of the project is in Granville, and per the article Granville will be paying for related improvements (“They came to us having passed legislation to say, ‘We’re willing to do this to improve our side of the road, but we need your approval,'” Mattes said. “What we’re doing is ceding a portion of the roadway to them for upkeep and for permanent improvement.”). This sort of cooperation really should be default for any projects were multiple entities have a financial stake or are otherwise majorly impacted, that was equally true of the previous River Road proposal.

Official opening of Ray Ray's Meat + Three is tomorrow, but they are having a "local preview" today. Got takeout for lunch since we've been smelling it for weeks, which has been torture. Not only was the meat probably the best BBQ either of us has had, but the sides (and the peach butterscotch cobbler) were equally as good. It was really obvious how much thought and skill went into pretty much everything. We finally have a restaurant in Granville thats truly worth bragging about.

This is less than three blocks from my house. Seriously can't wait for it to open, at least from the outside they've done a great job of transforming what was most recently Creno's Pizza (originally L-K Family Restaurant) into something that looks really great.

I've definitely heard Central Ohio a lot more, and (without thinking about it) use that exact term myself. Really does imply a collection of independent cities more than a consolidated metro area, consistent with the perceptions of those who have been here much longer than me.

Yes, Hamilton is about 10 miles closer to Cincinnati than Newark is to Columbus, and aren't any gaps between the two. The two cities have been much more directly and closely connected through multiple eras of transportation, which furthers the interconnectedness. The term Greater Cincinnati is used all the time (I don't know that I've heard that sort of terminology used quite as much with Columbus), which I think contributes (in my mind at least) to the "suburb of" perception - but metro area/Greater Columbus is a lot more reasonable, and really probably does describe my perception a little better. I am realizing that I'm definitely conflating Cincinnati and Columbus development patterns and history, when in reality they are quite different. Part of why I love having these discussions, I do like to know more about where I live. I think another factor is Cincinnati was much larger earlier on than Columbus, and many of the surrounding cities are closer to the core city, and mainly grew as a result of Cincinnati's overall growth. The county seats surrounding Columbus seem to generally be larger than those surrounding Cincinnati (Hamilton/Middletown being exceptions). Also the Pataskala area (for someone like myself who has no history with the area) definitely feels like an extension of Columbus. 16 being called E Broad Street from Downtown Columbus through all of Pataskala somewhat implies as much... You can also see Downtown while still in the City of Pataskala along 16, which always fascinates me... (These are possibly more unfair Cincinnati equivalencies - you can't really see downtown Cincinnati from far away, and Vine is the only downtown Street that extends much beyond downtown.)

Sort of a related side note observation, as someone who is relatively new to the area. UrbanOhio seems like the right place to discuss and gain some insight. I'd also guess I'm not alone in my perception, which could have an impact (for better or worse) on future planning and development in Licking County. I've noticed that a lot of longtime/native Newark residents definitely think of Newark as self-contained metro (which it absolutely is!), but as someone new to the area I can't help but think of Newark/Heath/Granville as suburban Columbus. My wife and I are often surprised by how many of her students and Newark-resident colleagues think of doing things in Columbus as a big deal. Pre-pandemic, we probably ran a small majority of our errands and trips to restaurants in the immediate area, but never thought anything of going to Columbus for variety (there is afterall a critical lack of quality Indian food in Licking County). But for the most part, we've been impressed with how easy it is to stay local and accomplish most things, and we do like to spend our money in Licking County when we can. I've been trying to think through why our overall perception is so different. It could be as simple as the 16/37/161 highway has always been in place in the time we've lived in the area. We're sort of in there middle compared to most of Newark - it's 10-15 minutes to get to the various stores on 21st Street or in Heath, but only 20-25 minutes to Easton. Before the highway was in place I could easily see how it was a pain getting anywhere in Columbus from out here for much of anything, I really hate that section of I-70 and it takes time just to get to it. Also realizing that perhaps we developed some of our routines when the traffic light was still in place at Cherry Valley Road, it actually was often quicker/easier to go to Columbus on weekday evenings. It's also possible it's mostly just us. Being from the Cincinnati area, everything up this way is "Columbus", as I'd assume someone from this area would think of Hamilton as "Cincinnati". We also lived in Athens for several years, so (other than a good variety of local food options) we got a bit used to having to drive 50 miles to go to Target.

Yikes. I guess I've just managed to never come across anything that blatant and stupid, which is precisely why I asked. Now that you mention it, I could see that sort of attitude being more prevalent in some of the longtime/lifetime residents. There is definitely a transplant/native divide that comes up now and then, with the natives looking down on the transplants. About the only elitism I've personally dealt with in the area was a particularly realtor looking down on certain streets in Granville as undesirable because (until the late 1970s) they were near the railroad tracks and industry. I could very well see there being a group of people very much stuck in the past. I do however disagree that the GEVSD board and residents shouldn't have a say in the River Road development, since they do have a stake in this development based on the impact it will have on the district. It would seem that a school board meeting would be the more jurisdictionally appropriate, but with how things work in Ohio the district really doesn't have a whole lot of say in the process. I'm sure GEVSD would be thrilled to hand that land over the NCS, but the primary reason this is even being considered is because its in Granville Schools. I do agree this is a great example of where some regional planning and cooperation would be of great benefit. No reason there couldn't be a solution where everybody wins.

Very interested to see where this is headed. When they say mixed use I assume there will be a residential component, but I don't see it really mentioned specifically on the website. Those old industrial buildings would make some pretty neat apartments. I'm hoping the sand volleyball thing is primarily meant as a marketing gimmick "resident amenity" rather than a true focus of the development. When we lived in New England a few years back, industrial complexes like this converted to apartments were fairly popular and many had gimmicks along these lines. Our 125-unit former cotton mill had a basketball court, gym, and theater room that almost nobody used - but all are mentioned prominently in their marketing.

I agree with you that Granville needs to be preparing for growth, though see my comment above about the funding situation in the district. Granville really does need to allow smart growth versus stopping any growth, commercial growth in particular is desperately needed to offset the school taxes. Thats said, I'm glad there isn't the all-too-common "all development is good" mentality, since developers tend to look at what's best for them in the short term rather than what's best for the whole community longterm. Prefacing the next question by noting I've lived in Granville for about 10 years, but I'm not a native of the area so I don't have any sense of things like school or historic rivalries, and would like to think I'm looking at everything without any baggage or bias. I also am not sure if we are staying in Granville long term for a variety of reasons I've mentioned elsewhere.... So asking honestly, where does this "Granville looks down on Newark" stuff come from? I see that sort of thing posted now and then in places like the comments section of Newark Advocate articles. But I've NEVER seen or heard anything of the sort from a "Granville person" in the time I've lived here when talking with natives or transplants, and I haven't seen as much as a single post that implies people (adults anyway) hold such attitudes in some very active Granville Facebook groups. Park Trails/Park Ridge people are generally regarded as part of the Granville community since all the kids know each other, and they are most certainly "Newark people". I myself am pretty jealous of the real downtown that Newark has and everything that has been happening down there - it's great! I'm also jealous of the variety and quality of housing stock in Newark, my wife and I came very close on a number of houses in Newark back in 2012 when we eventually bought our house. Older house or newer house, there are so many options in Newark that are both bigger and better-built than anything we have in the village. The only Licking County city I personally have a negative opinion of is Heath, mainly because (to me anyway) its embodies almost everything bad about suburban sprawl-style development post WWII. If Heath didn't exist, downtown Newark would have probably never needed revitalization since it never would have declined. Heath seems to have embraced the all growth is good mentality from the start, thus resulting in an abundance of empty or outdated retail space, usually just letting the next developer build new rather than revitalize what is already there.

The vast majority of the organized opposition was from the Park Trails/Park Ridge residents, who Newark officials most certainly are obligated to answer to. Though I also enjoy the irony of that group fighting a large Newark City/Granville Schools development. A big part why people are digging in on this is GEVSD really got nailed in the last few recalculations of the state school funding formula. The district has had to ask for even more local money (both property and income tax) over the last few years, and our school taxes were already REALLY high due to the lack of commercial development (a whole different topic...). There are definitely some people who had to stretch financially to live in the school district even before taxes went up. (Of course there are also the usual anti-tax people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for their cause.) I personally would have been happier if the apartment component was included versus just single family sprawlburb, and I'm definitely not alone in having this opinion. There is a huge shortage and high demand for decent rentals in GEVSD, so prices are crazy high for what little is out there. Unless some of those apartments were specifically affordable (something else desperate needed around here, this area needs economic diversity) any new market rate apartments would have brought in almost as much money for schools as single family. It's also not like the apartments are the difference between needed and new school and not.

Per a local realtor, posted in the Granville Parents in the Know Facebook Group, "Subdivision still goes before the Planning Commission for approval (and public comment), but I believe can only be denied if it does not meet the zoning and subdivision regulations." So it sounds like as long as the predefined conditions are met, it can move forward. While there has been some "losing the small town charm" NIMBYism, the majority of the pushback I've seen (at least stated publicly) really does center on the need for everyone to pay for the new school this development would necessitate. I think a Park Trails style special assessment for the new houses would go a long way to buying goodwill.

River Road development rezoning application withdrawn from Planning Commission after Service Director said he wouldn't approve, citing extensive opposition: https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/03/10/opponents-halt-river-road-housing-circle-k-gas-station-developments/4633349001/ So the plan for apartments in this development is apparently dead. Current zoning allows for low-density single family housing. According to discussion on the Granville Parents Facebook group, they are already out surveying with hopes for as many as 500 houses. My instinct is a Park Trails-esque large single family development is probably what the developers wanted to build from the start, with the hope opposition to that sort of plan would be decreased by initially proposing then withdrawing plans for a large multi-family component. In realty, at least going by the tone of the Facebook discussion on the topic, the main concern has always been that ANY development on the proposed scale would necessitate a new school that the rest of the district would get to help pay for. Most of the positive reactions I've seen are from people who are hopeful the entire project is dead, which I think is pretty unlikely.

When my wife and I lived in Rhode Island, we lived in a circa-1881 5-story brick and timber former cotton mill (factory building) that had been converted into 124 apartments. It was a very cool place to live, those conversions were all the rage with young professional-types in that region, with plenty of similar character-filled but virtually empty mill buildings to work with. Every time we drive past the complex on W Main, we talk about how cool it would be to turn it into a similar loft development. The surrounding area is even reminiscent of where we lived in RI (ie...a bit on the rough side). Unfortunately those conversions are apparently extremely expensive, and it probably takes New England-level rents and lack of cheaper options to make it viable. So agree it's a shame to see it coming down, I just hope the new development is something decent and actually gets built. I really hate seeing interesting old building getting torn down just because it's not financially viable at the moment to rehab (with no regard that could change), but the empty land sits on the market for a few decades.

Wow! I was amazed/happy enough when I found the USGS aerials, but this is so much more extensive. I'm probably not sleeping tonight...

Circa third grade, the Snappy Cicada jingle quickly became our bus driver's least favorite song.

As noted previously, I think it would be smart to explore the benefits of incorporating the full extent of GEVSD as part of Granville village (no doubt city at that point). At least that way Granville itself has a lot more control over its destiny, regardless of what direction they ultimately chose to take for the area. Granville Township as it is can certainly control devlopment within its borders with tools like open space deed restrictions and minimum lot sizes. The biggest worry there would be a neighboring municipality incorporating portions of Granville Township, but as you correctly note that threat is not imminent. The area I'm probably most concerned about is the Union Township portion of the school district. There does appear to be municipal water/sewer service to several newer subdivisions along Outville Road. While that is Harrison Township, it's only 1 mile from the Union Township line. There also seems to be plenty of open farmland in the Granville Schools portion of Union Township. I'm definitely speculating a bit here because I don't know if Union Township has things like lot size requirements and if they would be willing to waive them for some big development proposal, my guess is probably if it works out better for them. The other thing I don't fully understand is if SW Licking Water and Sewer can offer service in Union Township, or if there are other limitations. That said, looking at the whole fire district debacle last year, Union Township government does not seem to give much thought to the concerns of residents in the northern portion of their township, since they are a minority of voters. I don't think any objections or concerns they would raise could stop any proposal from going forward.

Hopefully this provides a good option for places that used to buy from Granville's Lucky Cat Bakery, which closed last month. They really nailed that middle ground between artisan and versatile for things like sandwiches. (Though I also don't know how popular Lucky Cat really was with Columbus restaurants, it was definitely big with Licking County establishments.)