nasdun

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This property showed up in MLS today. Listed at $219,900. http://cincy.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=Cincynky&PRGNAME=MLSLogin&ARGUMENT=%2B7A%2BzGSaAFhGNe4ivHlvRUJ3bUfBA7r9EKePZjoxBXg%3D&KeyRid=1

RC - It almost seems like when you're posting, you come up with your own conclusions to how you think things are and then run with it. No estate has been filed yet. That doesn't mean there aren't any heirs. It also doesn't mean there isn't a will. Finding heirs can take a while if they don't surface right away. Legal notices have to be posted, etc. and ran for several weeks. There is always a defendant, whether the lady is dead or not. Banks foreclosing on a property do not make efforts to find an heir, they just fight to proceed with the foreclosure. I've never heard of family members stepping forward to pay delinquent mortgage payments for a deceased person. They usually just let the process continue, unless there is a large amount of equity or other reasons... like maybe they want to keep the property, etc. The property does not meet any legal definition of abandonment based on what you just said. A house can be vacant and still not considered abandoned. Banks only step in to protect properties in foreclosure if they are found to be vacated. Meaning the former occupants have moved out and left no personal property behind or personal property of any reasonable value or use. And when a bank steps in, all they do is rekey & winterize. They don't remove personal property or any number of other things. They're not the legal owner so they can't do anything. That's what the foreclosure process is for, so a bank or lending institution can gain legal rights to the property. Can you name one case in USA history where a bank has ever dictated to one home owner that their home wasn't being kept "in reasonable condition"? I've never heard of that before. If that was a common practice I doubt there would ever be run down homes anywhere. You're making assumptions that some stranger showed up to claim the house and sell off its parts. Whoever sold the personal items is probably one of those missing heirs you don't think exist. The only reason that auction house cancelled is b/c CPA and apparently you sent letters throwing fits over this house. They probably just didn't want the bad publicity. I doubt it had anything to do with anything not being handled in a legal manner from whoever they were dealing with from the family. As far as a buyer wanting to modernize the interior of the home... that's none of your business whether it is true or not. You don't have that right to tell someone what they can or can't do with the interior of their home. As far as ruling in the bank's favor, all that means in a foreclosure process is that the bank can continue with the lawsuit. It means nothing more than that. It's done all the time. After auction, taxes and county fees are paid first, then remainder goes to 1st mortgage. Any other debts will be cleared unless it sells over and above 1st mortgage.

Whoever you talked to at the HCSO either didn't understand the situation or does not know what they are talking about. The bank can ONLY secure the house if it is found vacant AND appears to be abandoned before the 30 day redemption period has been completed. And that doesn't start until the auction date has passed. Before that time frame the home is STILL owned by the defendant in a foreclosure. I don't like this idea of people dictating what other people can or can't do with their own homes only b/c certain items in the home are a certain age. If you want to go and dictate what goes on in these houses, then go buy them. If there really is a buyer out there that wants to strip this house down and modernize it, what's it anyone elses business? It might look better than it does now. Who knows. Just b/c things are old doesn't mean they always look good.

In MLS only 3 properties have sold over $150,000 in the last 11 years. The highest was $185,000. I discovered this area in the mid 90's and always thought it would be a great area to be turned around, but it has yet to happen. For an area like this to improve, it would take developers going in and buying up every single property on about 3-4 blocks. Then vacating every building and starting from scratch, but using the shells as the framework for a new city village, etc. I haven't seen any improvements at all since the mid 90's. These 4 buildings in question are not even worth the time. Just like OTR... you have to go in and buy a lot of the area to turn it around. One house at a time will take decades and then some for improvement.

Great set of photos. It's in worse shape than I remembered from 10 years ago. I guess the little old lady that used to run the place was a little tougher on the tenants.

On the question about Mt. Adams being affluent. I don't know for sure when it happened, but I have talked to a few older people that are from there. One guy I think is still living in a worn looking house on Oregon St. I talked to him about 5 years ago. He was in his mid 80's then I think. He said he'd lived there his whole life. He told me the whole hill was middle class German and Irish. He even carried on about teenage gangs being territorial up on the hill. He said somewhere around the mid 1950's a few people with money started moving up there, but it wasn't until the mid 60's to mid 70's that larger numbers started moving in. It was mostly spearheaded by Towne Properties. It used to be a few new homes here and there and the rest of the developments mostly being renovations of old buildings. It seems for the last 10-15 years they don't even bother to renovate anything anymore. Once an old building sells, it's torn right down for new construction. It doesn't personally bother me to see anything torn down in Mt. Adams for the most part b/c most of the older row buildings are not built of high quality. In contrast, most of the new construction is high end quality down to the construction methods. I went in a house on Martin St. back about 10 years ago when it was for sale by owner. It's the first house on Martin on the right when you enter Mt. Adams from Rt. 50. It's a plain looking old house, etc., but the cool part was that it had 2 basements and when you went down through the 1st basement, you entered some cavern type hallway and basically the 2nd basement was literally a hidden shack type whatever it was in the hillside that was part of the underground railroad. It was pretty cool to see that in person. It was for sale in the last couple years ago as a 2 family. If it ever goes on the market again, I'd recommend anyone wanting to see a little piece of history like that to go check it out. I'm sure this duplex will be razed sooner or later and you could tell from walking around inside that it wasn't built well. Maybe b/c of shifts in the hill over its approx. 150 years, etc. I don't know. Back to the original question about Mt. Adams... the only other thing that I thought was strange since Mt. Adams was basically an immigrant middle class area is the fact that Rookwood Pottery was located there. Rookwood was always a higher end product. In a book I have on Rookwood, it has photos of the display shop that was in the factory up there and it was very high end looking. I thought it was pretty interesting in the book to find out that Rookwood was the only pottery that was sold in all Tiffany stores across the country. So that gives you an idea of how high end Rookwood always has been (except near the end of its initial run in the 1950's). And if I'm not mistaken, the brick row houses on Filson Pl. were where many artists from Rookwood lived. I met an elderly lady back in 1996 and she used to take art classes in Mt. Adams back in the 30's or 40's. She used to take the incline everyday to get to class and everyday she shared the same ride with Kataro Shirayamadani. His pieces generally sell higher than any other artist and I think one of his pieces holds the record for selling the highest ever for a single piece of Rookwood (around $200,000). It's pretty amazing the stories you can rack up by having conversations with elderly people. And from what I've discovered, they're usually more than willing to share all they know and remember.

Now that was a good post. Thanks for the history lesson.

On the Westcott House... I have a great link in my bookmarks for anyone wanting to see some pretty extensive photos: http://www.peterbeers.net/interests/flw_rt/Ohio/Wescott_House/wescott_house.htm Not sure of the exact costs for the rehab. I've read as high as $5.8m. I know my opinion on these rehabs isn't a popular one, but I really wish when they're getting ready to spend millions on these properties that they just take the extra step to dismantle the entire house and then put it back together in a better location. When they do these museum quality restorations they usually just about dismantle the entire house anyway. I say take the framing down, load it up and move it while you're at it. Just a thought for the cool old houses stuck in crappy locations.

madcow - I pretty much agree with what you say, but I just don't understand the notion of creating a business based on a building vs. the act of creating a business solely. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just think most entrepreneurs start a business based on market area, demographics, etc. and grow from there. Sure there are exceptions, but for the most part you have to do what the market can handle for any business that is created. I've always heard these ideas of the Sorg Mansion being a museum or a restaurant and so many other ideas, but it's always these businesses or ideas that don't already exist. Starting a business is hard enough without a lot of excessive overhead. Anyone trying to buy this property for use as a business is going to have an incredible amount of overhead beyond normal in a location that is not popular and smells like backed up sewer at night. Why Middletown cannot solve the sewer smells in the downtown area at night remains a mystery to me. I've heard the stories that the sewers are over-sized and there's not enough activity at night compared to during the day, but whatever the reason it should be fixed for good. I do hope whoever buys this property has the funds to maintain it over anything else. A lot of people don't realize how expensive it can be. I won't go into too much detail, but I'll just say that I've got family that bought a property that was owned by a non-profit for several decades and it looked like it was in decent shape, etc. Well, after moving into the property, those drop ceilings were hiding cracked ceilings that collapsed. That one bathroom wasn't used, not b/c it wasn't needed, but b/c it was fragile and everything burst in it. Those walls weren't covered with 1970's paneling b/c it was easier to maintain, they were covered to hide busted or cracked plaster and holes that were never fixed. I could go on and on over how some businesses or non-profits treat these properties b/c of limited budgets, but my point is, the unexpected costs can take a person down if they haven't budgeted for the excessive unexpected. It looks easy seeing it on tv and actually I know the property you have on S. Main and it looks incredible from the street with the paint job, etc. But seeing finished products or fixed up exteriors or a 30 minute show on HGTV makes it seem so much easier than it is. Again, I just hope whoever or whatever buys this property has the funds to maintain it properly. And I hope the Finkelmans don't drop the price just to find the first person that can qualify for a lower purchase price. It's going to take somebody with deep pockets to buy and maintain that property the way it needs to be maintained.

So after touring the property what do you think of the price? They must have fixed it up since the last time I was in there b/c I remember it might have been in better shape than expected, but it was still pretty rough. Like the refrigerator that leaked in the library for so many years that it rotted a good sized hole in the floor. It was pretty cool how the hole was filled in with plywood next to all the inlaid wood flooring. I also remember the music room floor (the room used as a dance school for many years) being in horrible condition and pieces of flooring missing. I do think they finally removed the tree that grew all the way up through the chimney till it got to be about 5 feet taller than the house. It only shifted a few walls on the 1st and 2nd floor. As I mentioned in a post above, the gas & electric alone for this property are over $40,000 per year. When it does sell, the taxes will most likely triple since the parcel with the main house on it is only valued at $175,000. Then you have insurance, regular maintenance, h2o, etc. Anyone buying this property is going to have roughly $70,000 a year in expenses and that's not even including mortgage payments. Once you add mortgage payments on top of the other expenses you could be talking a budget of over $110,000 a year just to live there and that doesn't include any rehab costs.

Here's the Samuel Hannaford version of the house from about 1887-1902 Here's a photo right after the renovations were completed around 1902 by Pretzinger & Musselman of Dayton

Don't forget the last 12 month gas & electric for this property totaled over $42,000 (over $30,000 just for the main house alone).

It's at 9150 Cunningham Rd. A house of similar size is located behind the greenbelt behind this house and it sold for $8,000,000 a few years ago, so this one will probably be valued in that range. I don't know of any house in SW Ohio that has sold higher than $8m so far. This red roof house is on 5.4 acres. The current owner paid $1,650,000 for the vacant lot in 2005 (which had a ranch house on it and was torn down by the previous owner).

This isn't meant to be a challenge to anyone, I'm just curious how or why some of you have chosen the political beliefs you have. I was raised a Democrat. In elementary school I was one of 2 people that voted for Carter in our little classroom election. In that vote, Carter lost to Reagan by a landslide of 2-28. I even had a little green button I wore to school that said "Gimme Jimmy" or something like that. At that age I didn't really know what was going on with politics, I just knew that Democrats were always the right way to go. I still have my dad's newspapers from Nov. 1963 of the Kennedy assassination. I still remember my dad telling me stories that my grandma broke down when Kennedy was killed and blamed it on that "bastard LBJ". My dad's side are heavy Irish/Catholic, so the Kennedy family were like Gods when I was a kid. And FDR might as well have been Christ himself. I held onto those beliefs until I was a junior in high school. I started realizing that I didn't believe a lot of things that Democrats stood for and they seemed to always lose everything. My goal wasn't to be on a winning team or any team at all, I just found myself matching many of my ideas with the Republican side. Now on the social parts, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to abortion, gay marriage and other things like that. I'm more Libertarian on those topics in that I just think the government should back off and let people be and do what they want, etc. I don't like all the religious overtones of the Republican party, but I dislike more the anti-religious overtones of the Democrat party. Anyhow, I registered as a Republican, voted in my first election for Bush and made a t-shirt that said "Death before Dukakis". I guess that was a little extreme, but I was 18 and who isn't a little extreme at that age... I've said before on here that I'm anti-war, but I'm really more anti "prolonged" war. I side with the FDR/Truman unfriendly civilian war mode. I think wars should have a point, carpet bomb if necessary and get out as fast as possible. I don't like this Bush version of worrying over civilian casualties. That may sound harsh, but war isn't supposed to be pretty. Ok, so I won't get into every political belief I have, but there are so many pro-Obama people on here and I just don't get it. What beliefs do you all have that attract you to a candidate like him or just the liberal Democratic side at all?

Just for clarification, the Indian Hill house with the red tile roof isn't stucco. It's the same kind of blond brick that is on the Michigan Terrace building in Hyde Park (or at least similar to it). I thought it looked better when they were putting the brick on it. At first it looked like it was going to look like a one of a kind mansion, but a few months ago I drove by and in person it just looks like an over-sized McMansion type home. Indian Hill may have a historical society and a lot of old homes, but it's not really a historic area in general. They tear down old homes all the time. They tore down a very historical home at 8700 Shawnee Run about 2 years ago and split the property in half for new construction. It was called Mt. Olympus and I think the original part of the home was built in the early 1800's. If you go on the auditor site and look it up there are still 2 exterior photos on there, but all other information says it is a vacant lot. The current owner is one of the Davis guys that run one of those check cashing businesses. I can't remember his name, but his dad is the guy that built that huge 20,000+ sq. ft. home on Camargo (near the little red school building) that Stan Chesley owns now. Here's the only link I could find for that Mt. Olympus house, it's just a letter to the editor of the local Indian Hill news letter (it's on page 4): http://www.ci.indian-hill.oh.us/asp/data/bulletins/february%20bulletin.pdf

It doesn't matter how many showed up, it's the whole point of people buying a home in an area where bulldozers are about as common as a car. Then they throw fits thinking they are going to alter development. It's ridiculous. They've already got their own buffers in place that were there before the first houses went up. In fact, the land their homes are on had numerous proposals floating around when it was still owned by the old farmer. The old man that lived in that old narrow farm house was a tease. He would say he was going to sell, then change his mind. He's the reason Tylers Place Blvd. used to dead end where it did, he fought that in court. That's why Wetherington Dr. dead ends in the weird way that it does. There were talks of hotels, apartments, you name it. I don't know if the old man died or what happened to him, but when his son gained control of the property the developers of Wetherington had to outbid business developers for that dirt so they could buffer in the main sections of Wetherington. If you noticed, it's not connected by road to the gated area. Harbour Town land was also being promoted for commercial use. So these complainers bought homes on land that would have been high density. Right across their neighborhood entrance on Tylers Place Blvd. is a chunk of land... and guess what's going there. Not houses. This land area that is bordered by I-75, Fox Hwy, Cin-Day Rd. and soon to be widened Ham-Mason Rd. has had one idea floated around after another since back in the mid 90's when I first started selling real estate in this area. So this is nothing new. This is just the first time a group has managed to tie up all the parcels needed, put a proposal together and make it public. A big bump in density is something like driving down Butler Warren Rd. about 10-12 years ago and then going back about 6 years after that and seeing what happened. This is no big deal at all and like I said, it was a given.

This land shouldn't be left as it is. It's the perfect spot for this kind of development. If people want peace and quiet, don't move anywhere near this area. The people that showed up to protest were probably just busy bodies... How can anyone buy a house in the last few years in this area and actually not be aware of all that is going on already. It was a given.

dmerkow - If that was a reply to me, I don't understand what you are saying.

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CincyDad - I don't get what you're talking about at all. This new project is perfect for the location and the breed of people in this area. Right across the street is Wetherington. It's one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Cincinnati. One year it even beat Indian Hill for average household income. Don't ask me how that was possible, but it did happen a few years ago. A few miles down Hamilton Mason is Heritage Club. That right there is about 400 households where the average home is around $1 million. Then there is Four Bridges right next to that with another 400 or so houses averaging about $400k with several near and over $1 million. Also across the street from this proposed development is a new really cool neighborhood called Harbour Town. High detailed small homes with average selling price of $550,000. This is all within just a couple miles of this proposed project and a big chunk right across the street from it. Bridgewater Falls is in Fairfield Twp. and caters to that area and Hamilton and is basically a middle class shopping area. It's not the type of shopping area that would have any high end stores. Union Centre area is mostly strip centers, hotels, offices, auto dealers and restaurants for the most part. West Chester and Liberty have a lot of high end residents and no shopping area catering to that. There really isn't any "shopping" in Mason either aside from strip centers. The high end shopping for that area is several miles down Mason Montgomery Rd. in Deerfield Twp. And most of that area caters to Mason, Montgomery, Sycamore Twp., etc. Middletown and Monroe will never have high end, at least in my lifetime. Monroe has that outlet mall thing in the works, but it's a discount mall. I know the Middletown area likes to pretend it is part of the Liberty/WC area, but it's not. It's like 2 different worlds, 10 miles apart. I'm from there and I don't know what happened to that city, but it's not the same city it was 15+ years ago. And as far as transplants? There's a huge amount of that in LT & WC. It's one of the most transient areas of the Cincinnati Metro. Most people that live here are not from here. When people get transferred to Cincinnati, West Chester is where many of them go to look for housing. It's a fact. And another thing that sets WC & LT apart from most of SW Ohio is the amount of foreigners that live here. It's not uncommon to hear different languages being spoken when grocery shopping. I'm not saying it's heaven around here, but it's not as ridiculous as most people on this board make it out to be. If the whole world was urban it would be boring. Even downtown Cincinnati started out as a little village before it became a city. I think a lot of urbanite minded people forget that every city starts out like that. If this world is still here 100 or even 200 years from now, who knows what great city might rise from one of these suburb areas.

I don't understand why the law couldn't be more reasonable. If 25% of the population smokes, then why can't 25% of the state liquor licenses be allowed to have smoking if the OWNER CHOOSES TO DO SO? Nobody would be forcing anyone to go into a smoking establishment. Just doesn't make any sense to me why there are so many smoking nazis out there. I understand no smoking in restaurants, but I don't get the problem with bars. I'd rather ban people that wear too much cologne. Or people that have really bad body odor. Can we start banning people with colds since they can spread the cold to others in enclosed spaces more easily? Can we start doing lice checks before anyone with kids be allowed in a business? I mean, shouldn't we do whatever we can to protect the workers and the unsuspecting public? People are too easy to give up rights. I understand people that don't smoke wanting a smoke free place to go to, but that shouldn't give them the right to dictate the policies of every single establishment in the state. And don't we humans keep living longer yet most of these statewide bans just started in the last several years? Maybe we will all live to be 120 now.

These photo sets are pretty cool that you do, but just out of curiosity... Is this for work, school, hobby or what? And did you do all these photo sets on one big road trip or over a period of time?

That is really cool. I've never seen a building with wavy glass on it like that before.

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