Eigth and State

For the record, there was a gap of about 20 years that Amtrak did not use Union Terminal, but operated out of a dingy little building nearby on River Road.

To be quite frank about it, the Delhi and Green Township areas do not want better access for the criminal element to come to Delhi and Green Township, and the trustees openly admit that. They are officially opposed to new bus service in Green Township.

"It was in the other areas of Hamilton County where the initiative went down in flames...primarily in the western portions of the county (ie Green Twp, Delhi Twp, Harrison, Miami Twp)." Could that be because west siders knew that the light rail was never going to make it to the west side? Sure, the map showed a line to Dent but everyone knew that the west side line was last on the priority list.

I used copper sulfate as the electrolyte in a high school experiment. Another way to say this is that the energy doesn't come from the water; it comes from the device that produces the radio waves.

I am not in favor of growth boundaries, because a sharp boundary produces problems of its own. Traditional cities were naturally developed in a way with a dense center and less density on the periphery. Sprawl is caused in large part by government providing "free" roads and utilities to developers outside of the urban core. KJP - I like nos. 1, 2, and 3. Nos. 4, 5, and 6 I think will be troublesome to implement or enforce. In the early history of automobiles, cities tried to regulate autos like they had been regulating streetcars. Driver's licenses were issued by cities. But, what if you wanted to drive to another city? Do you need a license in both cities? Ultimately, cities lost control of automobiles simply because they couldn't keep track of them all. And while the state eventually issued driver's licenses, the state authorities can't really track them, either. As for stormwater, I see your point, but again, enforcement is difficult. Slope, material, and location are also factors in stormwater management in addition to area size. In Oxford, Ohio, they limit impervious area. Guess what developers do? They buy one story houses, tear them down, and build one-story houses with basements on the same footprint. And what about downtown areas, which are nearly 100% impervious? Finally, are we talking URBAN growth boundary, or SUBURBAN growth boundary? Some previous posters called for some pretty big boundaries.

I wonder what the schools are like in Portland.

^--- My Mistake.

Jeffrey John Schnieder can tell you more but to my knowledge SORTA, operator of Queen City Metro, is expected to operate the streetcar. SORTA has a board of directors, some of which are appointed by the City of Cincinnati. A major part of the funding of SORTA comes from the City of Cincinnati income tax. SORTA has also been buying up abandoned railroad rights of way and trackage rights when thay have become available.

^---- That's a pretty dramatic cartoon. In all fairness, they are looking at an assymetric curve, which may or may not happen, and they seemed to emphasize the crash by speeding the film on the downslope side. I like the Volkswagon Beetle at 1975.

The gasoline price has two effects, though. One school of thought is that with the end of cheap gasoline, people will move back from the suburbs to the city. Another school of thought says that the whole economy will suffer, including cities. Apparently, we are experience a combination of the two. Suburban sprawl continues, but at a slower pace. There is renewed interest in city living. But oh, how are the first ring suburbs going to come out?

^--- That's what I thought. So, which jurisdiction was revised downward? :?

Read the methodology at the Census site. I don't understand it completely, but I'm working on it. Simplified, it seems that they estimate change in population by county, and then allocate the population among the jurisdictions within the county. Another way to think of it is that they know a child was born in Hamilton County, because they have a copy of the birth certificate; but since they don't know where he lives, they have to estimate based on some assumption. They thought he lived in Forest Park, but he really lives in Cincinnati. The City Manager then filed a challenge based on number of building permits, and the census reallocated that individual to Cincinnati, but they DID NOT revise the county estimate. They did not revise the state estimate or the national estimate, either. The Hamilton County Fact Book states that 26 jurisdictions gained population from 1990 to 2000 and 22 lost population, for a net loss.

"Suburban communities, in Hamilton County, have thus far successfully revised their total numbers for an additional 20,248 residents. The City of Cincinnati has was the first in this challenge process - having their numbers revised to account for an additional 22,583 residents. That creates a total of 42,830 residents that were previously not counted. 1990: 866,288 2006: 888,133 (revised number)" Did you get this number from the Census, or did you just add the challenge numbers to the county estimate? Please show that these residents were not previously counted in a different jurisdiction, and that the total estimate for Hamilton County has increased. (Did the census revise Cincinnati upward, but Forest Park downward?) These are the jurisdictions that won their challenges in 2007. Amberley village OH 10/30/2007 3,230 3,537 Delhi township OH 10/30/2007 29,831 31,147 Green township OH 10/30/2007 56,655 61,144 Silverton city OH 10/30/2007 4,627 5,180 Symmes township OH 10/30/2007 14,236 15,744 Blue Ash city OH 11/09/2007 11,537 12,689 Colerain Township OH 11/09/2007 56,508 62,205 Springfield township OH 11/09/2007 35,335 39,755 Wyoming city OH 11/09/2007 7,575 8,372 Yet, the Census did not change the county estimate. 2000, Census 845,303 2000, estimate 845,273 2001, estimate 843,993 2002, estimate 844,569 2003, estimate 840,362 2004, estimate 836,547 2005, estimate 832,250 2006, estimate 828,487 2007, estimate 822,596 Source: U.S. Census web site

Hamilton County population: 1970 924,017 1980 873,224 1990 866,288 2000 845,303 Source: Hamilton County Data Book, Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission

I got surrounded by about 4 "iffy" people once. I told them I was taking photos for a project, meaning a architectual photo project. I think they interpreted "project" as some kind of development project. This was perhaps the only time I really felt like I was in trouble. I said "Goodbye" and got out of there.

^---- There already IS a mass exodus from the county!

Grandparents: Amelia, Ohio, on a family farm. Cumminsville, now known as Northside. "We had a car but we didn't have a crapper" Covington, Kentucky. Green Township, on a 10-acre family farm, now a subdivision.

Somehow I feel like KJP was going to have a party when oil hit $100 a barrel. :-D

Henry VIII took a wife from Spain, Catherine Aragon was her name. She bore him a daughter a cute little one, But to keep the throne he needed a son. Their rocky marriage couldn't get worse, But the pope refused to grant a divorce. So Henry started a church of his own, He got his divorce and stayed on the throne. -Histeria kid's chorus

Just to repeat, there are TWO tunnel systems. One is the CL&N tunnel, and the other is the Deer Creek Tunnel. The CL&N system consists of a short underpass under McMillan Street together with a longer tunnel. It was originally a narrow gauge (3' wide) railroad with double tracks. It was converted to standard gauge (4'-8 1/2" wide) railroad with double tracks, but due to the narrow tunnel, the tracks were too close together. After two trains sideswiped each other, it was converted to gaunlet track - two sets of tracks that actually overlapped. Of course, only one train could pass through the tunnel at a time, but there was no switching involved. The potential use of the CL&N right of way for light rail comes up from time to time, and the narrow tunnel is still an issue. The Deer Creek Tunnel is a deep tunnel by comparison. It was started at both ends and at three intermediate points. The south portal was uncovered during construction of I-71 in 1966, and presumably, intentionally filled or collapsed. There is a map and photographs in the book "Narrow Guage in Ohio" by John Hauck. The map shows that the tunnel was between Elsinore and Blair. And yes, it would be neat to find it. I wonder if there is any construction equipment remaining in the tunnel?

Thanks for another great post.

Jurisdictionally, the Hamilton County Sheriff covers the whole county, but traditionally, he does not patrol the City of Cincinnati or other municipalities. The recent action in Over-the-Rhine was a break from tradition.

KJP, "But shippers will still have to ship stuff, even if at reduced levels." I guess the question is how much stuff will need to be shipped. Some say that peak oil will basicly correspond with peak everything; some say that that coal will make up the shortfall, until sometime later this century when coal peaks. Highways and railroads each have their own advantages, and they complement each other. Yes, the availability of oil will change the rules of the game. But the availability of oil will also change the rules of the game in the overall economy. I hear that there are fuel shortages in North Dakota, for example. If North Dakota farmers can't get fuel for their combines, will railroads need to haul grain from North Dakota?

If the nation's economy shrinks a large 5 to 10%, I think everyone is going to feel it, including railroads.

^--- Is the word "Transportation" clearly stated in the lease? I thought it was common to say "Rail Road" and that bike paths have NOT been able to hold the lease. This was said to be the problem with construction of a bike path between Metamora and Brookville, Indiana. The rail bank program allows bike paths under certain conditions, and one of those conditions is that the bike path must be connected to an active rail line, so that the route is not severed in case the rail road is reinstated in the future. This was an issue for the High Line in New York City, correct? In a related case, railroads have been known to sublease their rights of way for communications lines. There's a law firm in Cleveland, Ohio, who is looking for places where the lease says "rail road", and the rail road is (illegally) sub leasing to communications companies. The law firm is sueing on behalf of the property owner, and splitting the winnings with him.