Eigth and State

^I have to wonder if the Washington, D.C. Metro was a political answer to Stalin's Moscow system. Is there anything like the Washington, D.C. Metro anywhere else in the U.S.A.? In any case, it's highly unlikely that the feds will step in and fund something like that in Cincinnati. If it DID happen, we can pull out Living in Gin's work as a starting point. :-D

He he he.

I don't agree with Smitherman and I don't know where he got his numbers from, but I wanted to say that the accountants at City Hall have a different way of thinking about costs. Most of us think of construction costs as the amount that the contractor proposes when he bids the job. Often, the contractor asks for more money as the project progresses; sometimes he receives it, and sometimes not. But there are other costs that are not part of the construction cost, such as administration, design, inspection, etc. Production of construction drawings and documents is significant. Inspection, or the salary for the city employees who keep an eye on the contractor during construction, occurs during construction but is not part of the bid price because the inspectors work for the city, not the contractor. Administration is one that people forget about. Every time that a city employee who is drawing a salary sits down with a Duke employee, or politicians and employees on the payroll show up at a press conference, there is an administration cost. These costs are occurring now. If a project goes badly, millions of dollars might be spent on administration but the project might not ever get built. Then there's good old inflation. A project that costs $1,000,000 if it's built in 2010 might cost $1,030,000 if it's built in 2011, a difference of $30,000, for no other reason than the value of the dollar is not constant in terms of concrete, steel, gasoline, labor, etc. Very high inflation was a significant factor in the Cincinnati Subway story. In the end, total project cost for a typical city project is 50% more than the construction cost, or bid amount. On top of that, any costs incurred by others such as Duke shows up on Duke's balance sheet but not the city's. MSD and Water Works costs show up in a round-about way, since MSD and Water Works are operated by the city. Social costs such as lost business during construction, along with loss of associated tax revenue, are real costs that are not tracked at all. So, anytime that someone throws out a cost figure, the best question is, "What's included in that cost?"

A couple of people responded to my post. Ok, maybe the articulated buses weren't the best example, but they were initiated with hardly any media coverage, and no controversy. Sherman, I have been to at least 50 public meetings, many for much larger projects, and I agree that usually no more than 30 show up. The streetcar is definitely an anomaly.

I still think that taking the streetcar project into the political arena was a project risk, and the amount of energy expended on both sides is more than I ever thought possible. By contrast, Queen City Metro started operating the big, articulated buses on some of the main routes, and there was hardly a peep from anyone, neither in the political arena nor the media. Most of the same arguments apply: people won't ride it, boondoggle, etc. The opponents might actually have been correct, since I think that every bus route loses money and must be supported by taxes. But Queen City Metro didn't publish feasibility studies, didn't make a political issue of it, and didn't flood the media including UO with lots of facts. They just started operating the buses, and hardly anyone noticed, especially anyone in the suburbs. For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

Jake and others are correct that the City of Cincinnati doesn't control the state or federal government, which have a huge influence on the city. What I had in mind for tax reform is Jake's example of the parking lot owned by a non-profit. I don't know why non-profits are exampt from property taxes, but they are, and the City of Cincinnati is paying for infrastructure and police and fire service to support those properties but not collecting any revenue. Non-profits include government property, such as stadiums, interstate highways, and government buildings. I suppose that it would be silly for a government to pay taxes to itself, but we are talking about different governments. If it was fair, Hamilton County would be paying property taxes on the stadiums to the City of Cincinnati. (They do make some payments by agreement.) ODOT would be paying taxes on the acres and acres of urban land consumed by highways; this might also make them think twice about expanding I-75. To make up for the lack of property taxes, the City of Cincinnati charges an income tax. This has the effect of pushing businesses outside of the city to avoid the tax, and allowing the poor to fill in the gap because the poor don't pay any income tax if they don't have any income. On election reform, in Ohio people vote where they sleep. Why not vote where they work, or where they own property? At the time of the writing of the Constitution, the founding fathers considered giving the right to vote to property owners only. In the 1992 presidential campaign, Ross Perot suggested that people vote in proportion to the taxes they pay, something like most corporations do. As it stands in Cincinnati, we have political candidates pandering to the poor, because they make up a big voting block, while they contribute little if any to the economy and taxes. We also have big businesses in the city that contribute a lot to the economy and taxes, but don't have any say because the owners live outside of the city. It doesn't make much sense when you think about it. If residents and businesses were flocking to Over-the-Rhine and the city had a healthy budget, we wouldn't need to argue about the streetcar. We could just build it using property tax revenue without begging for money from the state or anyone else. That said, it will be very difficult politically to make any real changes. "If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson

I've been giving some thought to the city vs. suburb debate, and Jake, I think you are on to something. I'm beginning to think that what the City of Cincinnati really needs is not more infrastructure like streetcars, not more attractions like stadiums, convention centers, or The Banks, and certainly not more social programs, but real tax and election reform. If the core problems can be solved, the other problems will solve themselves.

LIG - Excellent analysis. I enjoyted reading that. Thanks for posting.

"And if you can't walk anywhere from your home, MOVE!" You make it sound so simple. If I could find a place to live that was within walking distance of my job, shopping, family, entertainment, etc., and also had low crime, good schools, etc., then the choice would be easy. A lot of folks weigh all the options and choose to drive because it works for them, even though that they don't particularly like driving. The reality is that there are very few truly walkable places in Ohio.

Be prepared for very long delays, up to 10 hours. It doesn't happen all the time, but every once in a while the Cardinal gets caught up in a freight traffic breakdown or gets delayed by an accident.

I don't know if this is still being considered, but about ten years ago there was a proposal for a "stack" type interchange with I-75, with towering left-turn ramps. I thought, "don't these traffic engineers have any consideration whatsoever for what the highway looks like from the neighborhoods below?"

Nice! Thanks for posting.

^But why should any private owner pay for infrastructure when the government gives it away for free? Is this just another tax gimmick, like a TIF district or enterprize zone?

I don't know anything about the condition - maybe it wasn't safe anymore - but if a bridge like that crosses a navigateable waterway, it may be possible to lift the superstructure off of the piers and transport it to a place where it would be appreciated, such as the Licking River between Covington and Newport. I came across an old highway report from the 1930's and they were saying how progressive it was to replace wooden covered bridges with steel truss bridges. Evidently, no one was thinking of preserving wooden covered bridges at that time. Thanks for posting.

Not sure what to make of this. Certainly it looks like good news for Kent, especially with businesses moving downtown. On the flip side, is it only students who like walkable areas? It is because they are too poor to buy a car? Is the professional student the fastest-growing occupation in the economy? It seems like there's lots of money being poured into universities and university towns these days. Yet in the peak-education thread, it looks like it's all a sham.

Anyone else notice the rotational slides on the cut slope above I-75 near Mitchel?

The use of carpool lanes is not accepted by all state highway departments. Some say that the additional complication is not worth the benefit. Adding more lanes to I-75 is a very expensive proposition whether the new lanes are carpool lanes or standard lanes.

I don't live downtown, but I spend a fair amount of time in downtown and Over-the-Rhine. I've never felt unsafe, but one time I walked to my parked car in Mt. Auburn in the middle of the day and found the window smashed, and that has always made me uneasy about leaving my car parked. I never had another problem, though. Please let us know how it goes. I was thinking about moving there myself.

I don't mean to discourage you, but... I got involved in a big civic exercise called "Community Compass" a few years ago that was kicked off with a bang in the ballroom at Music Hall. About 1000 people attended. The people were organized into smaller groups, who met in working sessions to come up with goals and strategies to solve urban problems. The whole process took two years, and at the end they publised the results in a big book. I stuck with it through the end. Only about 10 people showed up at the concluding meeting. There were as many ideas as there were people, but the whole program sort of fizzled out in the end. I learned some things, and met some people, but no one actually applied any of the ideas to solve the problems. A plan without funding is just a dream. Life is what happens while you're making other plans. It seems that federal and state policies control so much of the economy that even if the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County (Or Dayton, or any other Ohio city) could get their act together and make some progress, it would be overwhelmed by things outside of their control.

If there is something going on behind the scenes that I am not aware of, I apologize. I get my information fron this site and from the media. What I am looking for is a line item in the city budget for construction of the streetcar, not a promise of funds from an outside source that may or may not materialize. Furthermore, the funding should be for the entire project, including all the required utility work, because demanding that the utilities spend their own money will only work if they have the money and are willing to share. The funding should inlcude a plan for operating costs, whether it be farebox or some other source. I consider casino money risky because it is not guaranteed. For those who don't know, it is common for grants to come with time limits. For example, a grant may stipulate that construction has to occur between 2012 and 2014; otherwise, the grant is retracted and the funding will go to a different project. If there is more than one grant, then they all have to be coordinated. This makes project scheduling all that much more important, because a delay could result in a loss of funding. It is much less risky to have the cash on hand. That said, I used to think that the streetcar was just another dream project that probably will never get built. Now, I think it has a much greater chance. I would not be surprised, though, if it doesn't actually open until 2017.

It may or may not happen, but now I think it's a lot more likely than I used to think. I don't think it will be stopped by a tiny fringe group. If it is stopped at all, it will more likely be for lack of funds or political will to fund it. COAST and their antics are just a sideshow. Construction hasn't been delayed. We haven't even gotten to construction yet. What has really been delayed is funding, and maybe design.

^You mean the Cincinnati Streetcar isn't the greatest thing to never happen (yet) in Cincinnati? :-D

^Federal awards for highways started in earnest about 1920. There are some earlier ones. The federal income tax was made possible by the 16th amendment to the constitution, ratified in 1913. It's hard to imagine life before the income tax. Some economists say that the real evil of taxes is not that they just take your money, but that they influence economic decisions. For example, we could build a highway or we could build rail, but we have this big grant for a highway, so we might as well use it to build a highway.

^The purpose of the shoulders is for safety. I can think of a few reasons why: The shoulder provides additional clearance. The shoulder provides room for breakdowns. The shoulder provides staging area for emergengy vehicles. The shoulder provides staging area for enforcement. Using the shoulder as an extra lane for capacity must be weighed against the loss of these safety features.

For what it's worth, here are the opening years from the project phasing and implementaion schedule of the Metro Moves plan, 2002 Final Report: 2003 MetroMoves Bus 2005 Central Area Streetcar (Cincinnati-Newport-Covington) 2005 Downtown-Uptown Streetcar 2013 I-71 Corridor LRT 2018 I-75 Corridor LRT 2024 Western (I-74) Corridor LRT 2029 Eastern Corridor LRT 2030 Southeast Corridor LRT 2031 Crosstown Connection LRT 2032 River Road Commuter Rail Local revenues required for rail were $1.7 billion in 2002 dollars, which worked out to $58.7 million per year on average, using a 30-year funding period; the total funding requirement including federal, state, and farebox revenues were more than double that, $4.4 billion. Ridership numbers were based on connections with the improved bus routes, which would have cost an additional $776 million total, $507 million local, over 30 years. So, if things had gone according to plan, today in 2012 we would have improved bus routes, and both the central and uptown streetcar. We wouldn't have any light rail opened yet, though the I-71 line would be nearing completion and ready for opening next year. We would have spent a total of $58.7 million per year over ten years, or $587 million in 2002 dollars to date, of local revenues on rail only. Paging through the route maps, it looks like Metro Moves included a surprising amount of suburban bus lines, with bus routes from downtown to Northgate Mall, West Chester, Fields-Ertel, and Beechmont/Anderson, but also ones between suburbs such as Anderson/Beechmont and Tri-County via I-275. The I-71 light rail included stops at : Airport Mineola Florence Donaldson Buttermilk Kyles Covington Government Square Courthouse Walnut Hills MLK Xavier/Evanston Norwood Ridge Road Silverton Kenwood/Galbraith Cooper Blue Ash/Pfieffer Reed Hartman Cornell Park Fields Ertel Mason Western Row Kings Mills