Eigth and State

For perspective, the 1925 Master Plan advocated demolition of all the building facades on one side of 5th street to widen the roadway. How they were supposed to cut the front off of all the buildings and keep them functional I don't know.

"In five years, you won't be able to find anyone that will admit voting against the stadiums." - Mike Brown, sometime around 1997. "The county should sell the stadiums." - Recent Enquirer letter to the editor, as reported by Jake above. Do not underestimate political grudges. They run deep.

For a while it was AOL, then Yahoo. Facebook seems to be taking a bigger and bigger share all the time. It should be interesting to see what happens.

^It would be cheaper to just buy some tanks without the truck. Even so, you take the chance that the price of gasoline will go down! By the way, how do you like the Focus? I'm thinking of getting one of those. What kind of mileage are you getting?

Central Parkway was actually more of a grand boulevard in the past than it is now, due to demolitions. The wide combination of Third Street, FWW, and Second Street is unique the way it is because of the streetwall. The wide street allows decent viewing angles on the skyscrapers, unlike the canyons of some cities such as New York. A city should have a mix of street types. Fourth Street is unique because it is so narrow, and Thrid Street / FWW / Second Street is unique because it is so wide. The Thanksgiving Day Race was staged on this street. The starting line was on Second Street heading east. The course turned north up Main Street, then looped into Newport and Covington, returning on the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge. It returned on Third Street, making the turn back on Second Street and passed under the same starting line, which became the finish line. Second Street was full of runners and spectators, and all of this action happened with the backdrop of the skyscrapers. 15,000 people entered the race. It was grand. Other than filling out the Banks, I wouldn't change a thing. If one must develop every bit of space, I would focus on some of the parking lots to the north of downtown first. Fill them with three and four story buildings, or a little higher if it's on Central Parkway.

Can you elaborate on this? Since you asked, Yes, I'm happy that something is finally happening there, but I'll tell you why I think it's been a disappointment. It has taken way too long to build. At the time of the stadium campaign, the assumption was that it was going to open at about the same time as the stadiums. That's 10 years of potential activity, property tax revenue, and postcard views that were lost. The Freedom Center, which occupies the central site, is underwhelming because it just doesn't attract much traffic. The Banks is surrounded by too much parking, and the football stadium is just too big and empty most of the time. The Banks doesn't interact with the river as well as it could, because it is cut off by a motorway and the navigation aspects of the site make it difficult to establish any riverboat action. A marina which appeared in one of the early renderings never materialized. Some of the beach cities in this country have excellent waterfronts. Look at Virginia Beach, Myrtle Beach, Miami Beach, etc. They are oriented toward the water. Also, the harbour cities of New York, Baltimore, San Francisco, etc., have made excellent use of the waterfront. Cincinnati is a river city, as are Pittsburgh, Memphis, New Orleans, and Louisville. The river cities have all pretty much ignored their rivers, because there just isn't much action there anymore. River traffic is still important, but it's all bulk materials in really big tows that dock at obscure industrial locations. I told someone once that the City of Cincinnati is the biggest inland port city in the United States. He said, "where's the port?" Most of the pleasure boat action in the Cincinnati metro area is near the Little Miami River, at Harbortown, Four Seasons Marina, and others. Yes, there are technical reasons for this, namely the topography was more suited for it in the Little Miami River floodplain. The serpentine wall was designed for small boat docking, but few use it. It would have been nice to see a better connection to the river. The whole thing is of course heavily funded with public money. The untold story is what could have been done with that money. Sure, it's fun to see new things get built, but just look at what we've lost. We have a new baseball stadium, but we lost the Cyclones. We have The Banks, but we lost McAlpins. We have Holy Grail and Johnny Rockets, but we lost the Maisonette. The flip side of subsidized development is that the money has to come from somewhere else, and there is an opportunity cost that is not well publicized. None of the mass transit elements - light rail, the streetcar, inter-city rail - have materialized. The machine room was supposed to be a full-time restaurant. There's not enough interest to keep it open. So we have a couple of trendy restaurants. Better than nothing, but it could be so much more. Don't compare The Banks with what it was 10 years ago. Compare it with what it could be. :-)

^Yes, the east side is the money side, but the money is more toward Indian Hill / Madeira / Loveland and less toward Eastgate / Anderson Township / Clermont County. Plus, aren't rich people LESS likely to take public transportation? They have more expensive cars and larger lots.

^To add to that, the commssioners promised a property tax rollback, but after it passed, they said they forgot to say that it only applies to owner-occupied residential properties. Landlords and commercial property owners got nothing. At the time that it was proposed, the idea was that it would be a wash for Hamilton County residents, since for the average person the sales tax would be offset by the property tax rollback, and the net gain in revenue would come from outsiders who paid the sales tax in Hamilton County. In any case, the football stadium ended up costing much more than advertised, the anticipated sales tax revenue didn't keep up with the forecast, and the Banks and entertainment district, although it is finally being built, has been a disappointment. Also, the Republicans lost their control of the Hamilton County Commissioners, a condition that had been in place for many years. And yes, this is pertinent to the streetcar because it led to renewed mistrust of local government, especially of the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County. Mike Brown got generous terms on the lease, including parking revenue, and therefore has no incentive for any kind of mass transit at the stadium. As I remember, the opposition effort collected 80,000 signatures. This might have been the largest political movement in Hamilton County. The Enquirer and WLW were obviously on the side of the stadiums because they make a lot of money on sports coverage.

^^I don't think anybody really understood the property tax rollback to begin with.

Well, I guess you get what you pay for. The Enquirer is a popular newspaper, with entertainment being a major part of their business. It's good for basic news such as weather, accidents, and events, and they have good sports coverage. If you are looking for original research on political and technical topics, you are looking in the wrong newspaper.

Here's a concept for urban grade separation of some of the major intersections on MLK such as Clifton, Burnet, Vine, etc., making the other streets right-in, right-out only, and accomodating left turning movements by driving around the block: It sort of resembles a cloverleaf interchange, except the the leaves of the clover are city blocks. It improves traffic flow on MLK as well as on the crossing north-south streets. Some of the connecting streets already terminate at MLK like this.

^That's old-school. Newspapers are competing with internet discussion forums and weblogs, both for readers and for writers as well as advertisers. Newspapers are a step away from making everything automatic, just like this forum. No one fact-checks posts on this forum before broadcasting it to the world. Who says that professional editors and reporters have to be respectable journalists? Anyone with a press can publish a paper in this country. I think they are publishing for the entertainment value.

Allright, I have a plan: Starting at Rookwood Pavilion, make the Wasson corridor a light rail line between two one-way streets, designed to accomodate bicycles as well as cars. At Erie, the divert the light rail northeast along Erie to the Murray line, and follow the Murray line to Mariemont. This lines up the possibilty of a future extension in the direction of Eastgate, and the former Hyde Park Branch is available all the way to the former CL&N, complete with a bridge over I-71. This allignment maximizes potential ridership, because it splits the most developed area. It sure does beat the OASIS line for development potential. From the Wasson corridor at Erie, continue a separate bike trail on the former Hyde Park Branch to connect to the Little Miami Bike Trail. The grade is easy, and the infrastructure can probably be rehabbed for bicycles. This works out well because so much of the alignment passes through park property. This gets a connection all the way from Rookwood Pavilion to the Little Miami Bike Trail. Meanwhile, build the interchange at MLK and I-71. Grade-separate some of the major intersections such as MLK and Clifton, MLK and Burnet, MLK and Vine, etc. to improve traffic flow in both the north-south and east-west directions. Prohibit crossing traffic on some of the other existing intersections. (Some of them are already right-in, right-out intersections with MLK.) Make sure to accomodate all the left-turn movements by directing traffic around the block to the grade separated intersections. Of course, if there is no other way, leave the intersections at grade. This will dramatically improve automobile access to the uptown area by reducing the number of signalized intersections and left turning movements, and make MLK a sort of modified expressway. Preserve the OASIS line for heavy rail. The Circus Train still uses it, as does a handful of industries and an occasional passenger excursion. Rebuild the front-street line along the Riverfront from the Boathouse to the old Amtrak station, connecting the two railroads operated by Rail America. This in turn will give Rail America an option to avoid the congested Mill Creek Cooridor, freeing up a little bit of capacity there, and does not affect the transit center under Second Street. Now we have four improved east-west routes through eastern Cincinnati, one for each mode; light rail, bicycle, motor, and heavy rail. Only on Wasson do they overlap. Everybody happy? :-)

^A properly designed street should accomodate automobiles and bicycles. The only real reason to separate bicycle and automobile modes is when the speed differential is high, such as a bike path parallel to I-75. On a side note, I can't tell you how many West-Siders have said, "They have a nice bike trail along the Little Miami River. Why can't we have one parallel to the Great Miami? Or the Whitewater? I guess it's obvious to me, but not everyone knows that the Little Miami Bike Trail was built on a graded railroad right-of-way. In fact, I think the rail banking program allows the railroad to take it back if they require it, not that they ever would. Cutting a new right-of-way of any kind, whether it be for rail, highway, bicycle path, or utility is an expensive proposition.

^Looks so simple! The drawback with running rail in the middle of the street is that it's intimidating for passengers to cross the street and wait in traffic. I've toyed with the idea of making the Wasson cooridor into a rail line with a pair of one-way streets on either side, with the rail line depressed below street level between two retaining walls in certain stretches, allowing for grade separation at important cross-streets such as Madison. Adjacent property owners, the rail cultists :-D and the bicycle lobby are all eyeing that corridor. I hope it is preserved as a corridor and not developed into self-storage places like so many other railroad properties. The Exclusive Guideway plan of 1977 says that the Penn line (former CL&N) still served 40 railcars per week from Eggleston but the Walnut Hills tunnel was closed.

I've been on MLK 100 times in my life, but just this week was the first time I have ever driven it from end to end, Madison to Hopple. MLK of course was not an original through route like Montgomery or Reading Roads that originated in the pre-automobile era, but a throughway that was deliberately cut through a built-up area, taking advantage of certain streets such as Melish along the way. The reverse curves and awkward intersections attest to this. Some trivia is that there was an attempt to rename Hopple Street along with the rest of the throughway to improve wayfinding but the Hopple family protested. If you include the Westwood Northern Boulevard and all of Madison Road along with Hopple and MLK, you indeed have a long, continuous throughway from one side of town to another. Strangely enough, this was NOT included in the 1948 motorways plan, because that plan showed a gap between I-71 and Madison.

^If you haven't read LeCorbusier's "City of Tomorrow" yet, I highly recommend it. It was first published in 1924, which is about the time that zoning codes came into existence in the United States.

^There is still stone at the quarry where the Roebling Bridge stone came from, but the quarry has been out of operation for many years. Stone has to be commercially available to be used economically. The stone used in the Freedom Center came from Italy. The designers of the Freedom Center built those unusual curving stone walls to mimic the curve of the river. It seems that the symbolism is lost by surrounding the Freedom Center with other buildings with so many sharp corners.

^Amtrak put up a new sign in front of Cincinnati Union Terminal. I bet that cost at least $71.4. Not a peep about it in the local media, either. :-)

$71.4 is very inexpensive for a railroad project. :-D

Who is quoted?

At a business dinner the other day, someone mentioned the streetcar. Here's what I heard: "They want to spend $2 billion on the streetcar." "The city already spent $7 million on the streetcar." "I try to keep an open mind about it, but it just isn't safe down there. And I work downtown!"

^I have a feeling that the Enquirer is going to continue to publish newspapers as long as it is profitable. If they want to publish ridiculous op-eds, that is their choice. I don't think that all of this Enquirer bashing is helping out the streetcar cause.

For all of the Enquirer bashing on this thread, I just wanted to point out that the Enquirer invested in a new building downtown when they could have moved to a suburban office park.

The Rybolt Road development certainly added some traffic volume but I-74 has been backing up since long before the Rybolt Road development. I-74 carries hardly any commercial traffic or through traffic to Indianapolis, and it is wide open at all times except the morning rush hour. It is dominated by commuters, about 2/3 of which head south on I-75 and 1/3 head north. The high proportion of drivers who enter I-74 and shift two lanes left to exit at I-75 north cause a bottleneck that backs up traffic. Rear-end accidents are common, backing up traffic even more. It is common for traffic to back up from I-75 to North Bend and beyond. Queen City Metro bus 74 (appropriately named) has a healthy ridership consisting mostly of commuters who park at one of several park and ride lots. Any proposed rail transit to the west-side beyond North Bend is probably based on political reasons rather than technical ones. I can think of a few routes that may be candidates for new bus routes, but the volume isn't high enough to justify rail transit. Jake, if you haven't been to Ruey's Woods off of Rybolt Road, you ought to go check it out. It's a new residential development built within the last 15 years that has surprising high density. Most of the standard zoning laws were thrown out in the interest of preserving wooded hillsides.