Eigth and State

^--- Be cautious about the revised census numbers, because the 2000 Census numbers were apparently too low. Thus, the 2009 estimate was higher than the 2000 Census, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Cincinnati is gaining population.

"The plan as it exists today is for the streetcar to continue north on Vine past McMillan and turn right onto Taft into a protected counterflow lane on Taft." Oh dear. That spot is the most pedestrian-unfriendly spot in the whole U.C. area. Adding a contraflow streetcar lane, ironically, will make it even more pedestrian-unfriendly. Who wants to cross two highways, plus a streetcar track, to get between the U.C. stop and U.C.? And it's still a LONG and not too friendly walk to the heart of the U.C. campus. Plus, counterflow is just asking for trouble. I continue to be disappointed.

"I think this is what happened in the Gulf, BP inadvertently tapped into such a "reactor"." Oh, nevermind.

"Transportation in the country is going down hill..." Petroleum reserves aren't getting any bigger. What did you expect?

Now if we could just get them to lose the 12-block zig-zag. :?

^We may not have had a streetcar but did you know that there were two passenger trains at Riverfest?

Maybe the current thinking on the origin of petroleum is completely in error. However, it doesn't matter. Wherever oil comes from, empirical evidence suggests that petroleum production is peaking. Oil companies don't care how it got there; they just want to know if they can extract it economically.

KJP, if you can't beat them, join them. Don't forget to send us photos. :-D

I guess you could move to France. They have an excellent subway system, regional rail, and high speed rail. Then again, their grocery stores don't open until 10:00 a.m.

^more likely that if people can't afford to drive 100 miles to the nearest airport, they just won't take the trip to Europe. Most small towns are emptying out in favor of suburban areas attached to the big metropolitan areas anyway. 2001 or thereabouts was the first year that airline passenger traffic declined, going all the way back to the beginning of the airlines. The 911 event scared some passengers off, but the airline industry was already hurting. We may be past the point of no return - the ultimate peak.

"I would too, but I'm stuck here for various reasons..." I don't need to know what your reasons are, but suffice it to say that there's more than one reason for choosing where to live. Gee, from the posts on this forum one would think that Ohio would be empty by now.

Chances are, the smaller towns in the U.S.A. that currently have connecting service to the larger cities are going to be disconnected from airline service. So, if you live in a small town and want to fly to Europe or something, you might have to drive a hundred miles just to get to the nearest airport with commercial flights. Airline economics are such that larger jets are more economical to operate on a per-passenger basis than smaller jets. Maybe as petroleum consumption peaks and declines, the smaller jets will become uneconomical one by one, leaving just the larger jets to serve the larger cities. Maybe the last airline to remain in service will be an 800 passenger airline between London and New York. Prior to the industrial revolution, most people spent their entire lives withing 50 miles of the place where they were born. Perhaps we are heading back to those days?

"On the bright side, Cincinnati's decrease was only 323 people." Thomas, you sure do like to put a positive spin on things. :-)

^--- In the third photo of Clifton Avenue can be seen a stone pier that was formerly part of the Bellevue Incline. Unfortunately, utility planners to not coordinate with each other. In fact, they actually compete with each other for street space, the same way that traffic competes for street space.

So KJP, are you saying that you are going to leave Ohio if the 3-C project doesn't move forward?

"Read the Draft Environmental Assessment...." Thanks for the link. I don't know how I missed that before. Section 3.0: "Selection of a preferred alternative will be made after comments on the EA and comments received at the public hearings have been fully considered."

^--- Ideally, the tracks, catenary, stations, vehicles, power supply, and maintenance facility will all come together on exactly the same date. In reality, they probably won't match that well. If you had a choice, which order would you prefer them in? If the tracks are complete before the vehicles, then we have a round of subway jokes to deal with. But if the vehicles come first, then they can be hidden away somewhere so as not to attract attention. Probably the best thing to do is store them at the manufacturer's place until the rest of the project is finished. Working backwards from the completion date, which item takes the most time to complete? Whichever one it is will be the critical path.

Also, when Cincinnati people travel, they say they are from Cincinnati. They don't say Cincinnati, Ohio, or just Ohio. They say Cincinnati.

^--- Which firm? And what tasks are they doing?

Front-facing attached garages are a cost saving measure by builders. Every foot farther from the street increases driveway costs, and many lots don't have adequate room for side entry garages. Attaching the garage to the house saves a little bit of wall, roof, and gutter line. Most everyone would agree that side-entry garages appear nicer than front-entry. Unfortunately, the garage door often becomes the main entrance because it is closest to the car. Many homeowners have nice front doors accompanied by an entry room with coat closets, yet they most often enter through the laundry room because it leads from the garage door.

"If you only knew..." Please enlighten me. I get most of my streetcar news from UO.

Sorry, I should clarify. One of the options is "do nothing." This is the option that happens when all of the other options are ruled out, or are not moved forward. If I ran a poll that said, "Do you support rail transit options in Cincinnati", then almost everyone would vote yes. The same goes for supporting world peace, ending poverty, stopping crime, etc. These are ideals that people want. If I ran another poll that asked people if they are willing to pay for it, I would get a completely different answer altogether. Even better yet, if I asked them to actually put up the cash, even fewer would be willing. Sure, City Council has voted several times to "support" the streetcar. Why wouldn't they support it? But as far as I am aware, they haven't made a significant financial committment. I realize that they have paid for studies, and advertised for a project manager. Granted, government-run projects usually take longer than private ones, and big projects take longer to design than small projects. However, this streetcar project is really dragging on and on. We had a feasibility study for the Over-the-Rhine loop several years ago, and it hasn't been built yet. It hasn't really even been started yet. Yet, the city is studying options for future phases. If the City were really serious about building it, we would have seen some action by now - and I mean real action, like producing engineering drawings and utility work, if not actual tracks in the street. A very common strategy for politicians is to avoid the major decisions, and to spend a nominal amount of money on feasibility studies and the like. That way, they can claim that they "support" a project, while not investing too much political capital. What this project really lacks is a sponsor. For the stadium project, Mike Brown spent some millions of his own money on a political campaign to build the stadiums. If the University of Cincinnati stepped in with $100 million to build the streetcar, it would have a good chance of being built. Same with Kroger, Fifth Third, or a number of other property owners along the route. if they all got together and formed an association backed by real money, then it would have a good chance of being built. As JJacucyk said, the streetcar isn't even on Kroger's radar! Business owners on Short Vine don't seem to be paying attention, and most residents are saying, "Why Over-the-Rhine?" So, by default, the City of Cincinnati has become the sponsor. Sure, we have some planners and transportation people who dream of a streetcar. But ultimately, it is the residents of Cincinnati who vote for Council, who controls the funding. So far, the streetcar does NOT have widespread support. I am hopeful that this thing will actually be built, but on the other hand I know that project concepts die all the time. The fact that the Corryville Kroger redevelopment plans do not consider the streetcar tells me that they are not taking it seriously. So, to sum up, City of Cincinnati City Council SAYS that they support the streetcar, but their actions tell me that up to now they are not willing to risk spending some substantial funds to get it done. They are leaning toward the "do nothing" alternative. Of course, this could change.

A transit system is kind of useless in a sprawl area. All of that I-75 stuff is automobile oriented development, with remnants of some pre-war towns scattered around.

"City Council is not going to vote on the route." Then, pray tell, WHO is going to choose the route? There is another option beside Vine, West Clifton, etc. That option is to do nothing, which is the default option. It's been said that doing nothing is not an option, but it IS an option. If the City of Cincinnati City Council does not support the streetcar, then in effect they support the "do nothing" option.

I found that area by accident a few years ago. I was walking in a sprawl area because I didn't have a car and the Continent happend to be right on my path. It had an active Post Office at that time, which was attracting a little bit of foot traffic but otherwise seemed to be abandoned. It is surrounded by a sea of parking lots. The narrow streets and architecture are not bad, and would do well if it happened to be on a natural pedestrian path in an urban area. But in a sprawl area? :?