Eigth and State

Assuming that electric cars with a 250 mile range are available, that's STILL a game changer. If the car is going to make a 250 mile round trip, that is only 125 miles in each direction - barely enough to make it from Cincinnati to Columbus and back - better not be going to the outer ring suburbs!

"Many on these boards, and elsewhere where people with a similarly pro-urban mindset congregate, openly and unapologetically promote legal institutional reforms that would shift power and resources away from the suburbs..." You might be surprised how much animosity there is in the city toward the suburbs. When all the new construction occurs in the suburbs while the city slowly deteriorates, and the Census says that population is more or less stagnant, then the obvious conclusion is that the development in the suburbs is occurring at the expense of the city. There is something wrong here, yet no one can tell exactly what to do about it, if anything.

"Electricity is a much better horse to bet on over the long term because it can be generated in many different ways. It is, in many respects, the ultimate flex fuel." Electricity is not a fuel, but a carrier of energy. Electricity cannot be easily stored. The primary benefit of hydrocarbons is that they can be stored and used on demand. Even nuclear doesn't have this benefit, because of the long start up and shut down times.

"How many drivers or airline passengers will there need to be..." It doesn't matter. Whether it is fair or not, the highway and airline industries have a source of funding, while passenger rail does not, other than a nominal amount for Amtrak and some for city transit systems. We can do cost/benefit studies until the cows come home but it is ultimately going to take a decision to fund the 3-C to get it done. We really don't know how many passengers will ride the 3-C, although we can make comparisons with ridership from similar systems in other states. In any case, bashing other forms of technology comes across as unproductive. Those other forms of technology are obviously popular. TBideon - It is unlikely that fares alone will pay for the service, at least in the form currently discussed, because travel times including connections to the destinations at both ends simply cannot compete with automobile travel at this time. Yes, it will work for some people, and there are benefits to be had from being productive while riding. If the 3-C is upgraded to high speed in the future, or if for some reason it becomes less affordable to drive, or if there is a lot of new development around the stations, then maybe the 3-C can be considered a long-term financial success. In the short term, it will not be.

Nice photos. You don't have to pay to get into the rotunda at Union Terminal, and it's worth the effort even if you walk from the street to save parking costs.

Just trying to be realistic here.... The 3-C passenger rail project, along with the Cincinnati Streetcar project, lacks widespread public support, and lacks a sponsor. Governments tend to be passive and reactionary. Since these are government-led projects, there is no incentive to get these projects done quickly. If there was strong business support for the 3-C, then it would have a better chance of being successful.

"We have a hardcore relationship culture with a pretty young age of marriage, not to mention people have babies in their 20's. Once someone is married and has kids, their life is never the same." So that's what our problem is. Too many Ohioans are getting married and having babies in their 20's. That's why you see so few young people around. They are all at home having babies and taking care of the kids. :-o This is logical, since age of marriage is coorelated with income. Not only do those Chicagoans and New Yorkers stay single longer, but they also make more money, AND lack the expense of raising children. Maybe there really ARE more singles in Chicago and New York, not only in raw numbers but in proportion to population. And since there are more singles, there is more street life, not because married people are boring, but because they are at home busy with the kids. I guess if we could get the average income up in Ohio, it would increase the street life!

^---??? :? I thought that the deficit was the difference between expenses and revenues. If expenses increase and revenues decrease, then the deficit can only increase. What can I be missing?

The United States still exports petroleum, but we are a NET importer, by a long way.

"The Dayton MSA will never recover from the recession lows..." There is a belief in this country that the economy always grows, population always grows, and things always get better. After all, this country has been growing steadily for the last 200 years, with a few setbacks during recessions. Watch any of the economic TV programs and you will hear things like "As soon as the economy recovers," "When the economy starts growing again," and things like that. It is a foregone conclusion that sometime in the future, the economic indicators will show an increase compared to today. Yet, there is no law of nature that says that the economy has to grow. It is not guaranteed. Just because no living person can remember the dark ages doesn't mean that we can't have a long term decline in economic activity. If the Dayton MSA will never recover from the recession lows, than that means that Dayton has peaked, permanently. This is a tough concept for a lot of folks. Yes, this "dismal science" is fun stuff. :-(

^--- But doesn't unemployment hurt two ways? A man loses his job, and therefore pays less income tax. If he also starts collecting unemployment benefits, then the government loses the value of those benefits. The deficit goes up both by loss of tax revenue AND increased entitlement expenses.

3 times in the last 4 years my land line quit working. All three times they came to the street and fixed it. One of the technicians said that the lines in the street are disintegrating. This is bad news for Cincinnati Bell, in that their infrastructure is deteriorating. The good news is that they fixed the problem promptly, gave me a discount for lost service time, and even offered to forward land line calls to a cell phone for free until the service was restored. More and more people are getting cell phones without land lines at all. I wonder how this is going to play out in the long run.

Carew looks good on the wide side. :-D

Last book finished was The ORSANCO story, which describes how the Ohio River Sanitation Commission, which is an interstate compact formed in 1948, managed to reduce water pollution in the Ohio River through 1965. I am currently reading Farm Drainage, a technical manual written in 1859. It is interesting for its colorful language, its serious mention of witches and their ability to locate underground sources of water, and description of the economies of farming in America in the 1850's compared to the economies in England.

^Hold on to that last photo, for once the tiara is complete it will no longer look like batman.

"Are there any laws specific to cyclists?" Ohio laws: Bicyclists must ride with, not against, other vehicular traffic. Only when walking a bicycle is a cyclist permitted to travel facing traffic. Bicyclists are required to obey all traffic signs, signals, and pavement markings. Bicyclists must use appropriate hand signals before turning or stopping. Bicyclists must keep to the right edge of the roadway, allowing faster traffic to safely pass. Cyclists can travel in thye middle of the lane if they are proceeding at the same speed as the rest of the traffic or if the lane is too narrow to share safely with a motor vehicle. Bicyclists should not pass other traffic on a hill or at an intersection. Bicyclists must stop at a curb to allow emergency vehicles to pass. Bicyclists must observe speed restrictions in school zones and speed limits in general. State law also permits local governments to regulate bicycle operation, such as requiring bicycle licensing and registration. Bicyclists must familiarize themselves with local ordinances to be properly educated about all laws affecting them. Bicyclists must never ride on the freeway, or attach themselves to other vehicles using the roadway. Bicyclists should ride only on the permanent attached seat of the bicycle. Passengers should not be carried unless the bike is equipped for it, and at least one hand should be kept on the handlebars at all times. Bicyclists should ride no more than two abreats in a single lane, except on paths set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Every bicycle ridden after dark must be equiped with a white headlight, a red tailight, and a red rear reflector. No bicycle shall be operated unless equipped with a bell or horn audible to at least 100 feet away. Every bicycle must have an adequate brake. A motorist must: Share the road with bicycles. The bicyclist has the same right to use the public road as any other driver, except freeways. Maintain a safety zone of approximately three feet between the car and the bicyclist. Pass a cyclist only when it can be done safely. Leave ample room for turning right after passing a bicyclist so the bicyclist is not cut off when the motorist slows for the turn. :police:

"Over-the-Rhine has more of a connection to the University of Cincinnati..." Over-the-Rhine was originally home of the University of Cincinnati. Hmm, if we moved U.C. back to OTR, we wouldn't have to get the streetcar up the hill.... :wink:

What do I do to become a renderer? Those guys must have so much fun, and are never really accountable for their designs. Any development can look good by adding people.

In the thrid rendering: Watch that last step, it's a doozy.

For what it's worth, Cincinnati used to have a McDonalds downtown on 6th street, and it was right in front of a popular bus stop. I remember that the sidewalk in front was usually occupied by panhandlers, and the manager came out often to shoo them off. I wouldn't be surprised if they finally closed due to the panhandling problem. Incidently, a nearby Wendy's also closed. I'm not a particular fan of McDonalds but it's not half as bad in an urban environment instead of a sprawl environment.

It's been slow on UO so I pulled up this quote from the archives. "At a time when the need to conserve fuel is an economic as well as an environmental necessity, mass transit and how best to embrace it it poses major questions for this region. The time for talk is now because the time for action rapidly approaches." Cincinnati Post 5-3-1975. :mrgreen:

Perhaps the streetcar is something that the media brings up on a dull news day. The burning of the statue and the gulf oil spill could keep them busy for a while.

"Those countries using more energy per capital have a few things in common: extreme climates and/or tons of wealthy people who drive sports cars and/or mining & heavy industry. " Also, the top 5 countries on that list of per capita consumption are all petroleum producers. They consume more oil because they have more oil. That's what I mean by saying that oil consumption is controlled by oil production, not the other way around. Also, a lot of oil is consumed in other ways besides automobiles. Some of the Middle Eastern countries for example use oil to fuel water desalination plants, which in this country would be considered a tremendous waste. Allright, enough of that for now. Thanks for the lively discussion everyone. :-D

"Here's some data: http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-351.html" Those are per-capita uses. Obviously, the United States has a high per-capita energy use. "If I now take public transit and walk/bike to my destinations that I would have otherwise driven to, how does that not reduce oil and energy usage?" Quite simply, it reduces YOUR energy usage, but not everyone else's. Basicly, the amount of oil consumed in this country is constant; if you reduce your oil use by conservation, it just makes that oil available for your neighbor to use. This discussion is drifting away from the streetcar again. My point is that the streetcar will improve mobility and perhaps improve property values. Those are good reasons to build it. The streetcar will NOT reduce congestion, emissions, or dependence on foreign oil; those by themselves are not reasons to build the streetcar.

According to BP, Europe used more energy than the United States in 2009: BP's Statistical Review of World Energy for 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/09/bp-energy-statistics-consumption-reserves-energy United States consumed 18,686,000 barrels Europe consumed 19,372,000 barrels Admittedly, one could argue that the United States uses more oil depending on which countries are counted in Europe. Either way, it's a lot closer than expected, considering Europe's well developed mass transit system and our pathetic one. On a per capita basis, Europe has a lower use by a long shot.