Eigth and State

Starting a high-speed system from scratch is technically possible, given enough money. This is the approach that Japan took in the 1960's. Since Ohio doesn't have the money to start a high-speed system from scratch, I think that it's out of the question for Ohio. It may be technically possible to build just one segment of high-speed rail, from say, Dayton to Springfield, with the money that we have, but obviously it will attract a limited ridership, and also have limited political support.

Percent decrease = {(Old sale price - New sale price)/Old sale price} * 100% {(213,200 - 87,300) / 213,200} * 100% = 59%

I came across two ideas that are being tossed around on the railroad forum regarding the terminal situation in Cincinnati. 1. What if the 3C line bypassed, CUT, stopped at the Transit Center under Second Street, and continued out the Oasis line to Sharonville. This would simplify operations at the expense of more track, because the route would make a big loop and there would be no need to turn the train around. 2. What if the 3C line terminated in Covington, Kentucky instead of Cincinnati. The practical advantage of this idea is that there is a place to turn the train around in DeCoursey.

Wow - I miss one day and come back to 10 pages of 3-C. I-74 was constructed with a bridge over the former CH&D in Northside. The railroad had been abandoned for many years when I-74 was rehabilitated in the 1990's. At that time, the bridge was removed instead of replaced. However, the new fill settled, leading to a very bumpy ride for an interstate, and that portion of the pavement had to be rebuilt. Yes, the closure of the Latonia Yard (I think that's what it was called) contributed to congestion in the Mill Creek. The same goes for the Pennsylvania Undercliff yard, and some others. Railroad economics at the time favored consolidation of operations. A passenger line from Sharonville to Cleveland is not as good as a line from Downtown Cincinnati to Cleveland, but it is better than no line at all. Cincinnati people have themselves to blame for lack of a downtown stop, because the NIMBY's along Eastern Avenue opposed any new rail activity on the Oasis line. The Cardinal line from Chicago to Washington through Cincinnati is a joke. The ridership in Cincinnati is very low. Sometimes the train is 10 hours late, or cancelled. Upgrading to high speed is not likely due to congestion from freight trains. Cheers.

"Here is a chart showing the comparative size of their 20 largest buildings." You said LARGEST and then showed a graph of TALLEST. The largest office building in the world in terms of floor area is the Pentagon, which I think is only 5 or so stories tall. :-D

"something that Georgia, Colorado and other states have yet to do" Interesting that you picked two states that are each dominated by a single city. Notice that most of the proposed rail lines serve two or more cities within the same state? If Cincinnati had been developed on the Kentucky side and Cleveland ended up in Pennsylvania somehow, I don't think we would be talking about the 3C line even though the only difference would be the border location.

When I was in Europe I noticed that every train station of any size had a grocery store in it, along with some other retail. It is a perfect match, because passengers can pick up groceries on the way home, or alternatively, buy a meal for the train ride. I assume that the railroads are leasing space to the grocery stores, which will enhance the revenue stream of the railroads. With all that pedestrian traffic, there is bound to be a demand for store space.

I have not. Please tell about the fridges in Europe.

Some comments about the Corryvile Kroger: I have an old advertisement for one of the early Kroger stores in a suburban shopping center. They advertised plenty of parking and one stop shopping. Specifically, they advertised that meat could be purchased off the shelf, without going to a separate butcher. Once upon a time, one had to go to the baker, the butcher, the grocer, the druggist, and a number of other stores. This is not too bad in a walking environment on a typical pedestrian street. Modern supermarkets came to be along with automobiles, highways, and refrigerators. No longer do folks buy a handful of groceries nearly every day. They buy them by the cartload, and truck them home in autombiles to fill refrigerators. Having the kitchen close to a private parking space is a major consideration when buying a home. Supermarkets have changed with the times to focuse on a business model that includes driving to the grocery store. We don't think of supermarkets as being in the transportation business, but that's exactly what they are. Not only do they own the parking lot, but they also own the loading dock around the back of the store. The last thing that a supermarket wants to do is provide free parking for neighboring businesses. That is why almost all supermarkets are self-contained developments. Even when streetcars were in operation before 1951, folks were driving to the supermarkets. The Corryville Kroger is an urban disaster. Reworking the design to improve traffic flow within the property would go a long way. Even so, Kroger does NOT want folks to park in their lot and patronize businesses on short Vine. They will go as far as to tow your car if they see you leaving their property. The Kroger Company bases their business model on automobile traffic. They cannot compete with a corner grocery store in an urban environment. Somehow the Over-the-Rhine Kroger has survived all of these years, but that was one of the earliest surban layouts and represents a transition from the storefront business to a suburban shopping center. The suburban shopping center layout is simply too big to be pedestrian friendly. You can't expect to walk into a huge store and come out with just a handful of groceries. The Corryville Kroger is making money now. What incentive does Kroger have to change? I don't know the answer, but changing Kroger's business model does not seem likely.

My guess is that number 5 is the West Fork Channel in the Northside area.

There were at least two accidents on Cincinnati's inclines. One involved a wagon load of manure and a wagon load of sand on the Price Hill incline. The horses were killed, but the drivers survived. The other involved a ruanway car on the Main Street incline in which 6 passengers were killed. There was also a cable car accident where the car got away and rolled down the hill. Considering that Cincinnati had 5 inclines that lasted about 50 years, the safety record was pretty good.

It is documented that when a streetcar line was converted to motor coach, the passengers invariably preferred the streetcars. Nevertheless, the decision was made to switch to motor coaches. This happened all over America. Today's bus system in Cincinnati carries about 10% of the ridership that Cincinnati's historic streetcar system did.

"There is a bus line that goes up there, though, so maybe a streetcar could replace the bus route? Not really sure though." The present bus line replaced a previous streetcar line.

Cincinnati at one time had a European-style train shed on the riverfront on the site of the present Bicentennial Park.

I lived in Dublin for a while. As Ink said, those stone walls with the top layer set on edge is an ancient design that is common in Ireland; I assume that they are meant to miimic Dublin from the old world. In any case, there are more of those in Dublin and many of them are very old. Another interesting thing in Dublin is the number of waterfalls that drop into the Scioto River. Many of them are on private property and therefore not accessible, but there is a big one surrounded by a public park called Hayden Run Falls or something like that.

Go take another trip to Europe now. You may never have the opportunity again. Thanks for the photos.

Glad to see the announcement here. I saw the articulated buses on Reading Road.

I saw QCS in person yesterday and I must say it looks better than in the renderings.

I got the chance to talk to a Cincinnati Firefighter who fought the Elm Street fire. He was about to enter the building when the order to evacuate was given. Then, he helped set up an aerial hose, and finally, entered the building next door to keep the fire from spreading to that building. His company at first set up on Elm Street, then drove around the block to work from the other direction. So, what would have happened to the streetcar if it had been in operation? He said that they had no choice but to shut down the streetcar line for about 10 hours. The firefighters took up the entire street. For a while, they thought that the facade might collapse, and they had to reposition everything away from the building. In the old days, the Cincinnati Street Railway had a special peice of trackwork that they could transport on a motor truck that they used to build a rail bridge over a fire hose. That way, streetcar service would not be interupted by a fire hose crossing the track. In this case, there was too much equipment in the street, plus the danger of the facade collapsing, to keep the line open.

"I wonder why the audience seems to be mostly older white guys." That's typical for all public meetings.

^---"And I hope the post about proximity to Africa wasn't either." Oh gee. Do I have to spell it out for you?

I think you are reading into it too far. Portland and Seattle have fewer blacks because they are farther from Africa. They have more Asians because they are closer to Asia. These show regional migration patterns rather than intracity migration patterns.

If you have ever been to a zoning public hearing or similar meeting, you might be surprised at the conflicts between people of different incomes. In one such meeting, a developer was proposing a new subdivision. The residents of the neighboring subdivision cried of school overcrowding, reduced property values, all the riff-raff moving in, etc. etc. Guess what the differnce in income was? The houses in the existing subdivision were $120,000 houses; the houses in the proposed subdivision were $110,000 houses.

I've got a great-uncle who is 92 years old that talks about Brighton, but I haven't heard that name from anyone else.

Maybe the more appropriate question should have been, "What happens to my political career if the money is appropriated and the project dies?" Projects die for lack of funding all the time. This is part of the normal course of business.