Eigth and State

Compare the effects of clorine to the effects of unclorinated water. You don't hear of very many people dying of typhoid anymore, although it was common two centuries ago. I think the benefits of chlorine outweigh the disbenefits.

What's amazing about so many school abandonments is the amount of furniture, books, and supplies that were abandoned along with the building. Thanks for posting.

It looks more or less like a radio tower, but solid. We have quite a few very tall radio towers, but they don't get the same attention.

Oh Dear. Since when has the city decided to build a new Western Hills Viaduct?

Are inflation-adjusted rates supposed to go down if inflation is negative? I can't imagine that it would be popular to lower the minimum wage. We had deflation a few years in the last century.

Looks nice. Thanks for posting!

Alternatively, removung the Kroger building would eliminate that gap. Just kidding. :-D

So Pottery Barn sells clothes? I thought they sold pottery.

Very cool. If worse comes to worse, the domes can probably be salvaged and moved to a place with better light conditions. Amateur astronomers today often have better equipment than professional astronomers of a century ago.

If the money supply contracts faster than the oil supply, then the price of oil could decline. I'm not saying that this is what is going to happen, but that this is one of the possibilities that COULD happen. There seems to be an underlying assumption that oil prices will increase, which is not necessarily true. Sometimes prices rise, and sometimes they fall.

^----"Then people want to know how high the price might go..." It could also go lower.

According to the source web site, there are 11 states with declining economies in 2008. Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, and Indiana showed declines. Pennsylvania showed an increase.

Computers and electronics changed a lot of things. 1992 seems to be about the time when computers and electronics hit the mainstream.

^----"Limited supplies and unlimited demand for oil..." This technically is not correct. Supplies of oil are certainly limited. Demand for oil is limited as well. Demand is not the same as want. Demand implies the ability to pay a fair price. People demand oil because they enjoy the utility of oil. Take automobiles for example. Oil is one of the ingredients that makes automobiles possible. However, automobiles are only useful as long as they are affordable. If gasoline costs $20 a gallon, other things being equal, a lot of people will stop driving. It will cost more to drive to work than a person can earn at work! At some price point, which is different for everyone based on distance, wage, gas mileage, etc., it will not be cost effective to drive to work. When gasoline prices reached $3.00, $3.50, and $4.00 a gallon, economists wondered how far it would go. Well, it does seem that we reached the limit. The higher the price went, the fewer miles people drove. Vast numbers of people who didn't take the customary summer trip, who cut back on extra driving, or who combined trips to save money cut down on the demand for oil, and prices stabilized again. At the same time, demand for airline travel dropped substantially, and business travel of all kinds declined. Peak oil is NOT about price! Price is related, but the peak price and peak volume of oil consumed are two different things.

Just to clarify, the ice rink in Cincinnati is a temporary structure that is removed for the season every year. It is a refrigerated rink that opens as soon as the weather is cold enough and closes as soon as it warms up. It is open for the entire winter, weather permitting. If we happen to get a warm week during the winter, we can't use it. The area occupied by the ice rink is open pavement the rest of the year. The rink is used for broomball leagues during the periods when there aren't many family skaters. The majority of the broomball players are teenagers. An announcer calls the play by play and makes up silly statistics; they broadcast this banter over the square and everyone seems to enjoy it. Indianaplois has a circular traffic pattern; Cincinnati has good programing and an ice rink. I hope Cleveland will try something that is known to work, and maybe borrow an idea from other successful spaces. The last thing I want to see is some wild new idea that doesn't work. Copying an idea is not the same as being a copy-cat. There are certain design patterns that simply work; study the great public spaces of the world and you will recognize the successful patterns. Learn from the mistakes of others, because you don't have time to make them all yourself. A few pages back, I asked about the daytime population of the square. I didn't get any answers. All I know it that various media reports describe it as "dead." I know it isn't dead; I've been there myself, and there are always lots of people. However, it feels "dead" because there are not ENOUGH people compared to the amount of space. Compare to St. Marco's Square in Venice, Tennyson in London, etc. Christopher Alexander in his "Pattern Language" theorized that the ideal population density for public spaces is one person per 300 square feet. Anything less will feel "dead," and anything more will feel crowded. Since Public Square is reported to feel "dead," I assume that it has less than one person per 300 square feet. Maybe someone can get a photo and count people? Working with this assumption, Public Square needs either 1) more people or 2) less space. Adding MORE SPACE without adding more people will only make the dead feeling worse. Note that the mound in alternative 3 adds more space, without any visible reason for more people. Moving the transit to some other place takes away people. This is equally a step in the wrong direction. If it were possible, I would consider shrinking the square. Obviously, we aren't going to relocate Terminal Tower. We might consider building a new building... But the best thing is to add MORE PEOPLE. With a declining population, it's going to be tough to actually come up with a lot more people. But if we make the ones we have stay longer, and get some commuters to come to play instead of just to work, we might be able to increase the number of people on the square at one time. If you don't think an ice rink works, come to Fountain Square in Cincinnati. It took a few years to catch on, but the ice rink brings an instant 100, 200, or 300 people, when the weather cooperates, during the winter evenings when the square used to feel DEAD. Cleveland, being a bigger city that Cincinnati, and with room for a bigger ice rink, should be able attract even more. During the off hours, the rink will take up lots of space, compressing the business people into a smaller area, bringing the rest of the square closer to the ideal density.

Just got back from Fountain Square in Cincinnati. There were about 100 people on the ice rink - and a steady stream of new people paying $2.50 to skate and $2.50 to rent skates. The rink is small - Fountain Square is not very large. There were stretch limos and horse carriages in the street. Ice skaters, people watching, people sitting down to put skates on or off - people huddling in the warm up hut - people in the surrounding buildings - in all, maybe a few hundred people, all at 7:30 at night in 20 degree weather! Fountain square is one of the most successful urban spaces that I know of. If you haven't been there, you ought to see it. Right next to Fountain Square is Government Square, which is used as a bus terminal and is the busiest bus stop in Cincinnati. By no means do I want this to become a versus thread - but Clevelanders, you ought to consider an ice rink at Public Square. And please don't try to exclude the buses. And maybe, consider moving the monument to the center, and add some trees, and maybe a restroom. Don't strive for the postcard view, or the cover of an architectural magazine. Strive to bring people to the square, and keep them there.

I used to carry extra food with me, and when someone asks for money for food, I actually gave them food. Not one of the panhandlers actually ate the food that I am aware of, despite the fact that many of them told me that they hadn't had anything to eat in three days, blah blah blah. One incident that I remember is a persistant bum who wanted one dollar to buy a burger at McDonalds, explaining that McDonalda had $1.00 burgers for sale. I offered to walk with him to the grocery store. He explained that he didn't want to waste my time, blah blah blah, and wouldn't it be easier to give him a dollar? I didn't give in. Today for the first time ever, I treated a panhandler to dinner. It was about 20 degrees F. when I drove to a gas station in a rough part of town. The station itself is pretty safe, as there are usually 3 or 4 police officers in there to get a snack. A woman came up to my vehicle before I even got out and begged for money. She was wrapped up in a coat with a big hood and looked pretty cold. It was starting to get dark. "I'm sorry, and I know you'll probably say no, but could you give me something, a dollar or two? "What do you need it for?" I asked. "I don't have anything at all. I don't have bus fare, I have nothing to eat, no place to stay..." "Where do you live?" "I don't live anywhere. I just got back from Puerto Rico last week... I was supposed to stay with friends, but it didn't work out..." "Where are your parents?" "My dad died some years ago." "And your mother?" "I don't talk with my mother." "Why not" "She's not worth talking to. I haven't seen her since I was 4 years old. She ran off with a black man to smoke crack. That's the truth" "Is she still alive?" "I don't know." "How old are you?" "24" "Can I buy you a sandwich?" "Yes! Thank you!" "I need to buy some gasoline. Meet me here in a few minutes, or meet me inside." I purchased some gasoline, then about 5 minutes later drove back to where I met the girl and parked. She was waiting. "Have you eaten here before?" "Yes, but could you order for me, and bring it out? I can't go in." "Why not?" "Because they yelled at me. I tried to sell my necklace." "No, come on in." "I can't" "Just tell them your'e buying a sandwich." She followed me in. The staff didn't give us any trouble. "Where are you going to spend the night tonight?" "I haven't figured that out yet." "Where did you spend last night?" "In a cold shelter in Covington." "Thank you for this." She said. "And thanks for talking to me, too. Most people won't talk to me." "What were you doing in Puerto Rico?" "I was living there." "How long were you there?" "Since last spring." "Why did you go there?" "I was living with friends." "Did you go there on holiday, and then just stay there?" "Yes." "Do you speak Spanish?" "No, but I know enough to ask for what I need." She ordered a sandwich ahead of me. The cashier asked her if the two of us were together. I had a feeling that the cashier had seen this woman before. I paid for her sandwich, and one for myself. She said, "I'm going to take it outside and eat it." "Why don't you have a seat in here"? She took a seat, and I sat next to her. I had the feeling that she wanted to get out of there. I asked her, "Where did you grow up?" "Bracken County, Kentucky, about 40 miles up the river." "Where did you go to school?" "Bracken County High School." "Did you graduate?" "Yes." "Did you get a job?" "I'm getting a job now. The Census is hiring, and it's a good job because it pays $15.00 an hour. I have to walk around in the cold, which I am used to. I am taking the test tomorrow." "At least you have a warm coat." "Someone gave it to me." I thought to myself that there's probably a lot of competition for Census jobs, it's just a temporary job, and they are most likely to hire someone with some job experience. $15.00 an hour is pretty high for a first job. My first job didn't pay half of that. I asked, "Have you got any brothers or sisters?" "My brother's in Iraq. My other brother I haven't seen in a long time and I don't know where he is. I have an older sister in Wisconsin. I have a little sister that was adopted when she was a baby, and another sister that was adopted when she was a baby... and another sister.... (counting on her fingers...) yes, that's all of them. My mother didn't take care of any of her children." She adds, "This sandwich is good. Thank you so much." By this time I was feeling pretty sorry for her. I wondered what to do next. I feel bad leaving her out in the cold. I said, "I'm driving downtown next, in case you happen to want a ride there." "I'll think about it." she said. She thanked me again, and got up and left, saying that she needed a cigarette. About a minute later, I finished my sandwich and went outside. She was nowhere to be seen. At least I know she's not going to waste my money. I never gave her any money, and I watched her eat the sandwich. Over the years I have offered to buy food to many pandhanders who wanted money "to buy a sandwich." This was the first time one of them took me up on it.

I enjoyed those. Thanks for posting.

Here's a photo from Union Terminal. From this angle, QCS will be right in the center of the skyline.

Transit is declining in Ohio. At the same time, air traffic is down, and it appears that driving is down. I guess all transportation is declining! Welcome to the age of declining mobility.

Very nice. I like the steam locomotive - tender - boxcar train in photo 11. It looks like it came out of a storybook or a toy store. I guess they really did operate those at one time. :-D

"Looking back at the renderings again it's funny to look at the people they drew in the square." Renderers usually draw the proper number of people for a project. That is why renderings always look so good. Too many people and the space feels crowded; too few and the space feels dead. A common mistake is to make the public space too large. Yet it looks pretty good in the renderings.

Very nice video. I like the renderings, and I like how all the people appear when the streetcar comes.

Ohio was the west once.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving the monument to the center. It would be visible for some distance down Superior. KJP, were you imagining that the perimeter streets would be one-way counterclockwise?